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 Post subject: Re: The Archer Rises
PostPosted: Thu Mar 17, 2016 11:52 am 
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Supremacy wrote:
Cobwebbed Dragon wrote:
An archer that's sacrificed skill with other weapons to be good with a bow isn't going to be practised at melee defence. I'd be tempted to give the Archer a much poorer defence than the other fighting professions to represent this lack of skill in this area.

If it was true, then why were the Archers so good versus infantry on the field of battle? (It's only versus cavalry that they were really bad.) Archers were killing Infantry from afar, reducing their number before getting out their Shortsword and fighting them hand-to-hand; when the Infantry was coming up close. So when you said "isn't going to be practised at melee defence": Archers were trained to fight versus melee fighters; but maybe those are Soldier-Archers, a subcategory of the first one.

I guess this comes down to whether the Archer profession is 'just a fighter that's kinda good with a bow' (like a knight that's picked a few of the archery skills of the mighty), or whether the archer is someone who has sacrificed all else to be a master of the bow. If you just want a rank-and-file archer, I'd propose a generic fighter profession with some combat skill options that enable them to specialize in infrantry, archery, or cavalry - to have a dedicated profession, it should be something special and rare (but still not superpowered).

But that's just my opinion, and my reason for proposing a lower Defence score - better than a sorcerer, definitely, but it shouldn't be anything special.

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 Post subject: Re: The Archer Rises
PostPosted: Fri Mar 18, 2016 2:47 am 
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Cobwebbed Dragon wrote:
I guess this comes down to whether the Archer profession is 'just a fighter that's kinda good with a bow' (like a knight that's picked a few of the archery skills of the mighty), or whether the archer is someone who has sacrificed all else to be a master of the bow.


I definitely had the latter in mind with this profession. Also I'm not sold on the idea that historical archer were masters of defence.

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-Kyle


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 Post subject: Re: The Archer Rises
PostPosted: Fri Mar 18, 2016 5:39 am 
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Was chatting to some old guy form birmingham yesterday about longbows. To be able to draw 200lbs, rapidly, they must've been rather well developed on the one arm... Must be what happens when you ban football and they got nothing better to do....

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 Post subject: Re: The Archer Rises
PostPosted: Fri Mar 18, 2016 10:35 am 
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Kharille wrote:
Was chatting to some old guy form birmingham yesterday about longbows. To be able to draw 200lbs, rapidly, they must've been rather well developed on the one arm... Must be what happens when you ban football and they got nothing better to do....


Yeah, I read somewhere that the skeletons of Welsh archers from the middle ages were found to have distorted, assymetrical skeletons, which was attributed to the enormous stresses put upon their bodies by pulling the bow all their lives. I alluded to that in the supplement.

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-Kyle


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 Post subject: Re: The Archer Rises
PostPosted: Sat Mar 19, 2016 3:02 am 
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did some google searching... stuff about mongol bows. I thought English longbow draw weights were 200lbs? Or is that for ballistas? Guess the sappers are the best archers in existence....



http://www.coldsiberia.org/monbow.htm
The Mongol bow is not as large and long as the English one, but it is vastly more powerful. The draw weight of an English longbow averages around 70-80 pounds, whereas the Old Mongol bow had a pull that, according to George Vernadsky, averaged at around 166 pounds. Chambers states that the pull varied from 100 to 160 pounds. This seeming discrepancy certainly reflects the fact that draw weight varied with the strength of the user, and with what use the bow had been made for. As could be expected, there was a considerable difference in shooting range. Whereas the English longbow could shoot at distances up to 250 yards or around 228 meters, the Mongol counterpart can hit its target at 350 yards or 320 meters and, if the archer is well trained for the task, even beyond that.



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_longbow

Draw weights[edit]

Estimates for the draw of these bows varies considerably. Before the recovery of the Mary Rose, Count M. Mildmay Stayner, Recorder of the British Long Bow Society, estimated the bows of the Medieval period drew 90–110 pounds-force (400–490 newtons), maximum, and Mr. W.F. Paterson, Chairman of the Society of Archer-Antiquaries, believed the weapon had a supreme draw weight of only 80–90 lbf (360–400 N).[2] Other sources suggest significantly higher draw weights. The original draw forces of examples from the Mary Rose are estimated by Robert Hardy at 150–160 lbf (670–710 N) at a 30-inch (76.2 cm) draw length; the full range of draw weights was between 100–185 lbf (440–820 N).[9] The 30-inch (76.2 cm) draw length was used because that is the length allowed by the arrows commonly found on the Mary Rose.

A modern longbow's draw is typically 60 lbf (270 N) or less, and by modern convention measured at 28 inches (71.1 cm). Historically, hunting bows usually had draw weights of 50–60 lbf (220–270 N), which is enough for all but the very largest game and which most reasonably fit adults can manage with practice. Today, there are few modern longbowmen capable of using 180–185 lbf (800–820 N) bows accurately.[10][11]


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mongol_bow

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