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PostPosted: Mon Dec 14, 2020 11:22 am 
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A warrior is only going to fight unarmoured, bare-chested, or naked if it gives them some advantage in battle

Unless he's a nutter... Or convinced that his god somehow imbues him with divine power for fighting in that way.

The Celts knew all about armour, but a great many still chose to fight "sky clad". They had some initial successes against their Roman foes until the Romans learnt to overcome their shock at this unfashionable style of fighting - at which point the Celts started to suffer. An increase in agility did not wholly make up for a lack of armour.

A reasonable compromise might be to impose a morale check on opponents of a bare warrior when they first encounter one. This morale check is no longer needed once it has been passed.
(Note: this really only applies to PCs facing bare barbarians - npcs are not too likely to be faced more than once.)


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 14, 2020 12:16 pm 
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Another point to consider, is that well fitted armour was designed to minimise any impact on mobility and freedom of movement. Even plate, if well made and tailored to the individual, didn't restrict flexibility much. The main impact would be longer term - the extra weight requiring more exertion overall, leading to eventual tiring sooner than someone less encumbered.

Not so much an issue if you are on horseback, or expect skirmishes to be over quickly though.


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 14, 2020 12:28 pm 
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Starkad wrote:
A reasonable compromise might be to impose a morale check on opponents of a bare warrior when they first encounter one. This morale check is no longer needed once it has been passed.
(Note: this really only applies to PCs facing bare barbarians - npcs are not too likely to be faced more than once.)

I like this. I can't imagine I'll ever use this ability in my games but, were I to do so, I like the idea of incorporating a morale check. It doesn't help the clothed but unarmoured warrior but this ability feels as if it's more designed to reflect those barbarians that would prefer to fight with few or no clothes than just those that generally eschew armour and still feel a sufficient sense of modesty to otherwise cover themselves up.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 14, 2020 12:39 pm 
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wimlach wrote:
Another point to consider, is that well fitted armour was designed to minimise any impact on mobility and freedom of movement. Even plate, if well made and tailored to the individual, didn't restrict flexibility much. The main impact would be longer term - the extra weight requiring more exertion overall, leading to eventual tiring sooner than someone less encumbered.

The way I reflect this in my game (without introducing a new fatigue mechanic) was that wearing armour imposes a small Ref penalty so that there was some penalty to wearing armour and some meaningful choice to which armour to wear. Armours also have an additional penalty to Stealth, so the combination of the two could mean the plate-clad knight is unlikely to be sneaking up on anyone anytime soon.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 14, 2020 11:08 pm 
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That's some good points. I still think any adittional defence would be too much of an improvement, and thus overshadow conventional fighting, at least for duels.
But maybe +1 Attack would be a good change, giving the bäreshirt fighter the advantage needed to make the trade-off worthwhile. It is supposed to be an offensive fighting style, after all.

Allowing the barbarian to move further before attacking could also be an added bonus. 5 meters perhaps?

I think the idea of causing fear in the enemy would give the skill some good flavor, making it feel like a very different fighting style. It does have some overlap with bloodrage though.
What odds do you suggest for the enemy fleeing in terror. 30% for unranked characters, and 10 % for adventurers and the like, perhaps?


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 15, 2020 11:53 am 
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Allowing the barbarian to move further before attacking could also be an added bonus.

I allow an increase to the movement rate of any unencumbered character. By "unencumbered", I generally mean a character bearing no more than two items (e.g. weapon + shield) and wearing normal (non-restricting) clothes. By that rationale, the bare barbarian would automatically have an increased movement rate...
(For this, I have assumed that the DW movement rate is based on a character carrying normal adventuring gear* - i.e. a well-stocked backpack - as well as a modicum of arms and armour. It means that a character discarding their kit can improve their speed...** Thus potentially improving their chances of running away from that really nasty monster.)

* Rather like DW assumes that adventurers are mooching around in a dungeon for the Perception rules.
** Not that this ever happens. I find that characters in rpgs seem firmly attached to their kit.

Note that Spartans had a saying: "come back with your shield or on it". A dead hoplite would be borne back on his shield. The idea behind the saying is that the aspis (or hoplon) was a very heavy shield and one of the first things discarded if running away... a cowardly act. (Thus improving movement rate for being unencumbered makes real-life sense.)


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 17, 2020 1:44 pm 
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Starkad wrote:
I allow an increase to the movement rate of any unencumbered character.


Thats a good idea. I think RPGs generally underestimate how much harder it is to perform physical tasks when you are wearing or holding equipment. Ever tried sprinting while wearing a backpack? It just feels restricting.

I imagine it only gets worse the heavier equipment you have. I know that plate armour is not THAT restrictive, but im guessing anyone is still significantler faster if they are just wearing normal clothes.

How much do you increase the move-distance of unencumbered characters?


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 17, 2020 8:08 pm 
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How much do you increase the move-distance of unencumbered characters?


Hmm. That's a question that requires a more detailed response... Because I don't use the "standard" DW movement rate.

Here are some choice extracts from my own, personal (unpublished) rulebook:

"Movement Rate in Melee Combat

Movement on foot uses the character’s Movement Rate. If the character is mounted then the mount's Movement Rate is used. Each Combat Round the character may move a number of metres up to his Movement Rate characteristic and engage in combat (either in attacking or retreating). A character or creature may move more than this score in a Combat Round but cannot then attack, though it may defend itself if set upon by an opponent that moves into weapon range (1½ metres or less).

If a character or creature has Surprised its foe, it can move up to double its Movement Rate and attack in the same Combat Round.

The Movement Rate is the number of metres which an encumbered character or creature (an armoured warrior, or a horse carrying a rider, for example) can move and fight in a single Combat Round. A character's Movement Rate is calculated by adding his Strength and Reflexes then dividing the result by ten; fractions are rounded off.

Movement Rate = (Strength + Reflexes)/10

Example
Aescwine the Barbarian has a Strength score of 15 and a Reflexes score of 10. Aescwine's Movement Rate is (15 + 10)/10 = 2½, rounded up to 3.

The normal distance that a character or creature can move in a single Combat Round is its Movement Rate x 4. This is considered normal, brisk walking speed.

Encumbrance

A character or creature may be 'encumbered' in Dragon Warriors. Characters and horses are usually encumbered during the game as their normal state of affairs, and no special rules apply. However, characters and horses that are unencumbered gain an increase of +2 to their basic Movement Rate. Thus Aescwine, with his Movement Rate of 3 would move 5 metres in combat when unencumbered.

Encumbrance is defined as a 'heavy load'. Clothing, or even a sword and shield, is not enough to constitute a heavy load for a character; but full armour, weapons, and a heavy backpack do qualify as a heavy load. An armoured warrior and heavy saddle are clearly a heavy load for a horse to carry, while a small girl riding bareback is not much of a burden for most steeds.

When deciding encumbrance, the GamesMaster is in charge of judging specific cases. In borderline situations, add 1 point, rather than 2, to the Movement Rate of the character or creature in question."

Final note: Running is Movement Rate x 8.
A character with 17 Strength and 18 Reflexes would have a Movement Rate of (18 + 18)/10 = 4m/CR.
Unencumbered (wearing ordinary clothes, carrying a xiphos shortsword and a spear), the character (let's call him Velox) would have a Movement Rate of 6m/CR.
Velox's running speed is 6 x 8 = 48m in 6 seconds... or 96m in 12 seconds.
This presumes that Velox is running in non-athletic footwear on an ordinary, rough surface...
...were he clad in little more than olive oil and running on a smooth running track, he might be able to comfortably exceed that speed (but the GM would have to adjudicate regarding the smooth terrain).

But the point is that 96m in 12 seconds over rough ground is probably about right for a proper athlete in DW - so the rule sort-of works.

I wrote those rules a very long time ago. They probably need a re-write.


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