Dragon Warriors

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2018 2:22 pm 
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Hi!
About the sorcerers , I have readen your posts. The likely number of sorcerers in Ellesland but also how is tolerated magic in the different countries.
I think Legend is a whole world and we can have utterly a different opinion about magic according the country : feared in Albion, forbidden outside the cities as in Algandy (see father Alessandro in "friends and foes"), elementalism relatively common in Glissom, Thuland and Mercania , and battle-mages (as warlocks) included in New empire of Selentine Army.

That could give a rich and deep universe (visited by the party). Of course the low fantasy atmosphere can be chosen by the GM, :) .

About the 4 new professions (I havent readen the Cadaver Draconis yet, and was not convinced by the thane), what is your feed back in your campaigns about the demonist , knave , hunter and priest use.
I read the player 's guide yesterday about the 3 latest professions and the only one I paid really attention was the hunter. A specialist with a ranged weapon and stealth skills , I just wanted to add him 2 skills : Trap detection , and a small alchemy and herbory skill (poison as the assassin, healing ointment...).
At this moment, in my opinon, the warlock and the sorcerer are the 2 best professions, and I want your opinion on the new ones..

Have a good week!

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2018 6:54 pm 
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Starkad wrote:
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And this is where DW offers the choice - do you want a high-fantasy campaign in which magic is a matter-of-fact part of society and culture or do you want a low-fantasy campaign where magic is relegated to the fringes?

It doesn't have to be so "either/or". You mention Dark Age beliefs, but "sorcerers" and pagan priests were around in the Dark Ages and the early Medieval period (there's a clear example in the Saga of Eirik the Red) and they weren't automatically hounded and burnt.* Nor do they appear to have been numerous.
* In Eirik the Red, the Christians simply leave so they don't have to be part of, or witness, the ceremony.

DW can have mages and doesn't need to be "high fantasy" as a result. A very few mages (whether Sorcerers, Elementalists or Warlocks) may well gain power and patronage - but they would be the exception. Others may be reclusive, avoiding society in the pursuit of their craft. Still others may have few skills and powers and simply try to blend in... In all cases, they are likely to be few and far between - not altering the basic "low fantasy" setting of the world at all. But they're still there, and folk would know they exist...

All very good points. I guess it depends on how much political power sorcerers have (and how much power the established political institutions, the nobility and the Church, have over sorcery). So long as sorcerers keep to themselves and don't upset the balance of power, then they can carry on with their rites away from centres of civilisation unmolested. After all, such personal power is not lightly trifled with and the cost of dealing with infestations of sorcery must balance the benefit of doing so.

However, sorcerers are always likely to be easy targets to blame for ill-fortune, etc., just like any outcast in the Dark Ages would be.

And my point wasn't that sorcerers = high fantasy, but that the widespread acceptance of sorcery would be. To have sorcerers wandering around the streets brazenly using magic or as a familiar sight on the battlefield is what would make it high fantasy. If adoption of sorcery is controlled (much like literacy, only more so), then you can keep it relatively low fantasy.

I'd recommend John Whitbourne's books about Tobias Oakley (Dangerous Energy, To Build Jerusalem, etc.) for the kind of thing I'm trying to explain. These books are set in a later time period than DW, but he handles sorcery (or, specifically demonology) in a civilised setting without upsetting the historical perspective very well.

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2018 7:00 pm 
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wimlach wrote:
Regards Legend, the original published setting is fairly explicit in highlighting that while 'common folk' generally distrust and are suspicious of magic (or any arcane knowledge, scientific or magical), sorcery is not only tolerated, but is openly employed by those in power.

I think they key there is "by those in power." If sorcery is controlled by the nobility or the Church, much like literacy was, then that's (relatively) fine. It would, however, almost certainly be illegal for rogue sorcerers to operate openly because that would be a threat to their power.

There is no definitive answer on this, and it depends how much of a challenge you want to give player character sorcerers in your campaign and, of course, how easy you want it to be for PCs who need a sorcerer to be able to find one.

Personally, in my own campaigns, I have ramped up the power of sorcerers but put additional controls on their abilities (such as Taint, etc.). Sorcerers are genuinely frightening and overwhelming when their ire is raised, but the personal cost to them, either in terms of Taint, becoming an outlaw, etc., prevents them from just taking over. And let's not forget that they can burn through their MP quickly, so it may only be for the direst of emergencies that they use their magic at all.

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2018 12:21 am 
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Quote:
So long as sorcerers keep to themselves and don't upset the balance of power...

I think that's key. A sorcerer who gathers too much power is going to start making some powerful people nervous... And people often attack/kill what they fear. (A similar situation arises with your comment on "rogue" sorcerers.)

Quote:
However, sorcerers are always likely to be easy targets to blame for ill-fortune, etc., just like any outcast in the Dark Ages would be.

Also true; and something PC sorcerers have to learn to live with. Can also give adventure hooks if the characters come across a sorcerer who is being unfairly accused... Do they help the sorcerer? They might get a sorcerer who owes them a favour... But will they be in the bad books of the local clergy? Choices, choices...

Quote:
To have sorcerers wandering around the streets brazenly using magic or as a familiar sight on the battlefield is what would make it high fantasy.

I agree that wouldn't be in keeping with the way Legend is portrayed. Although there might be the odd place where sorcery is more common (certain areas of the New Selentine Empire, for example)...

Quote:
Personally, in my own campaigns, I have ramped up the power of sorcerers but put additional controls on their abilities (such as Taint, etc.).

I read you allow sorcerers to cast beyond their MP limit, but accruing taint if they do so... Are there other ways you've increased sorcerous powers?


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2018 3:42 pm 
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Starkad wrote:
I read you allow sorcerers to cast beyond their MP limit, but accruing taint if they do so... Are there other ways you've increased sorcerous powers?

I've rebalanced all the indirect attack spells with new values for speed and damage, have rules for boosting spells with additional MP, have given sorcerers additional skills and rituals, and stuff like that. They also get more spells per level and more MP (4 per rank, every rank).

But this is balanced by social constraints and Taint.

So long as sorcerers avoid indirect attack spells, avoid using sorcery in populated our civilised areas, and are frugal with their MP, they're pretty effective. But there are temptations of power that mean few sorcerers end up practising their craft safely...

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2018 6:00 pm 
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Quote:
I've rebalanced all the indirect attack spells with new values for speed and damage, have rules for boosting spells with additional MP, have given sorcerers additional skills and rituals, and stuff like that. They also get more spells per level and more MP (4 per rank, every rank).

But this is balanced by social constraints and Taint.

Would be interested to read...


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2018 8:08 pm 
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Starkad wrote:
Would be interested to read...

I will definitely (i.e., eventually...) get around to publishing my professions and magic rules in the Forest. Although I'm aware I've been promising that for years!

Any recent visitor the Forest will have noticed that it's in the midst of a re-style to make it more mobile-friendly, after which I'll be refreshing the content with the up-to-date version of my in-house rules. After that, I'll add the new sections to cover the stuff that never made it as far as the Forest when I was putting the site together.

On the plus side, I should have more time now I have a new job closer to home (i.e., no more international commute! Wuhoo!)

I tend to post updates in the Cobwebbed Forest thread in the Fan Sites forum, so subscribe to that thread for notifications and you'll inevitably get notified. I also want to start an RSS feed on the site so people can subscribe to the change log but, as ever, my ambition far outstrips my talent so everything always takes far longer than I think it will :( !

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2018 8:20 pm 
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Quote:
I will definitely (i.e., eventually...) get around to publishing my professions and magic rules in the Forest.

Good man.
<Completely ignores the following sentence> ;)

Quote:
Any recent visitor the Forest will have noticed that it's in the midst of a re-style to make it more mobile-friendly

Oh, so that's why the layout had changed...

Quote:
I should have more time now...

Good stuff. I could do with some more free time. :roll:


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2018 8:33 pm 
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Starkad wrote:
Cobwebbed Dragon wrote:
Any recent visitor the Forest will have noticed that it's in the midst of a re-style to make it more mobile-friendly

Oh, so that's why the layout had changed...

Yeah. It's all them young people's fault for mostly browsing that new-fangled Internet thingy on their mobile whatnots.

It's fair to say that my site will never be properly mobile-friendly because I just don't have the skill to do that, but I have learned to do CSS @media queries and have wrangled some of the content to be a bit friendlier to smaller screens.

What I haven't really figured out yet is how to make the web apps behave sensibly, which is why the Workshop still has the old style. Although given that I have ambitions to front all of the apps with APIs so third parties (or me...) could use the output of those apps in other applications (such as a mobile app, for example), I might just start again with them (because, y'know, I have time for that...). Did I mention my ambition to talent to ratio?

Back when I was a young man-about-town, we didn't even have the Internet...

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2018 5:18 am 
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Oh, that age... all those times I spent running around 2nd hand book stores looking for old editions. Every city was a quest to find the rpg booksellers. Every village 2nd hand book store was a hunt for gamebooks. Heard one rpg bookstore in Glasgow shut down years back, Dragon and George.

Played Dave Morris's Warrior Kings. It was fun but I couldn't get into it. Reluctant to use the time accelerator, so moving some heavy infantry across the game map took ages. I like the principles behind it but couldn't get into the game. You can get it on gog.com for 2 USD on a sale. Really fun concepts like siege monsters, walls to batter and peasants to manage.

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