Dragon Warriors
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Revising the IMAGE and MIRAGE rules - Perception vs MagicalA
http://forum.libraryofhiabuor.net/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=138		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  Kharille [ Wed Jun 17, 2015 12:52 pm ]
Post subject:  Revising the IMAGE and MIRAGE rules - Perception vs MagicalA
Surely a skilled, high ranking sorcerer can create more convincing illusions than 1st rank sorcerors. As it stands, its always a 5% chance, like a roll of 1 on a d20. Surely this can be refined further?

Perhaps its 5% if the players do not suspect anything. And maybe when they actively try to investigate it they might have a higher chance based on a PERCEPTION vs MAGICAL ATTACK roll?

Would this work for you? If so, how would you go about resolving this?
Author:  WodenKrait [ Wed Jun 17, 2015 1:16 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Revising the IMAGE and MIRAGE rules - Perception vs Magi
For me it doesn't follow that Magical Attack equates to more convincing illusions. A more general question is: what gives away an illusion as being not real?

Perhaps simply having a Perception% chance of seeing through an illusion, with a bonus if the player declares they are closely inspecting the illusion, works. Or maybe it should match the intelligence of the sorcerer with the intelligence of the scrutineer; we know that dim witted or impatient creatures like Oni end up creating unconvincing illusions due to their lack of attention to detail.

Cheers,

-Kyle
Author:  Kharille [ Wed Jun 17, 2015 1:46 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Revising the IMAGE and MIRAGE rules - Perception vs Magi
Hm.. maybe new rules, but preferably quick to implement. I suppose it depends, if its the Father of Vallander having his way with somebodys wife and Mathor had to cast it... I am sure that Mathor could do a more convincing IMAGE on Vallander better than any 1st ranker. Might not fool another sorcereress like Morgana who might just be able to see through illusions.

Then again, that would factor in MAGICAL DEFENCE into the perception rule. Can it be done smoothly without multiple factors?

Now there is a thought, maybe the direct attack magic rules can be refined under certain circumstances. No cover rules.. hey, seeing as sorcerors hate iron, maybe metallic armour can help provide bonuses vs magic?

Can we expand the fluff on why sorcerors .. sorcerers hate metal? What if you trapped them in an armoury?
Author:  Dreadnought [ Wed Jun 17, 2015 8:55 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Revising the IMAGE and MIRAGE rules - Perception vs Magi
Kharille wrote:
Surely a skilled, high ranking sorcerer can create more convincing illusions than 1st rank sorcerors. As it stands, its always a 5% chance, like a roll of 1 on a d20. Surely this can be refined further?

Perhaps its 5% if the players do not suspect anything. And maybe when they actively try to investigate it they might have a higher chance based on a PERCEPTION vs MAGICAL ATTACK roll?

Would this work for you? If so, how would you go about resolving this?


If I was looking at that, I'd be looking at having higher rank spells - just as as Illusion is a higher rank spell than Image rather than making the spell get progressively better with rank. That's the way Dragon Warriors magic tends to work to me.
Author:  Kharille [ Wed Jun 17, 2015 11:39 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Revising the IMAGE and MIRAGE rules - Perception vs Magi
I suppose with the dragwars system it would be easier to rip out a few spells and add new ones.
Author:  maasenstodt [ Thu Jun 18, 2015 12:01 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Revising the IMAGE and MIRAGE rules - Perception vs Magi
Dreadnought wrote:
I'd be looking at having higher rank spells - just as as Illusion is a higher rank spell than Image rather than making the spell get progressively better with rank. That's the way Dragon Warriors magic tends to work to me.

This also strikes me as the best way to go. That way higher ranked characters have the option of using less costly but less effective spells, or more powerful spells that tax their energies more.
Author:  Dreadnought [ Thu Jun 18, 2015 1:42 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Revising the IMAGE and MIRAGE rules - Perception vs Magi
Kharille wrote:
I suppose with the dragwars system it would be easier to rip out a few spells and add new ones.


Lots of ideas for that in the Players Guide. Perhaps there has been a sorcerer or group of sorcerers somewhere who have been interested in illusions and so you could have a set of variant spells of that type floating around, known only to a few.
Author:  WodenKrait [ Thu Jun 18, 2015 1:07 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Revising the IMAGE and MIRAGE rules - Perception vs Magi
Kharille wrote:
Can we expand the fluff on why sorcerors .. sorcerers hate metal? What if you trapped them in an armoury?


I don't recognise that reference. Where does it say that sorcerers hate metal?

Cheers,

-Kyle
Author:  Kharille [ Thu Jun 18, 2015 3:03 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Revising the IMAGE and MIRAGE rules - Perception vs Magi
Metal armour. Whereas mystics hate magic armour, sorcerors just hate armour. It makes them miscast spells. Maybe we shoudl have penalties to make it unlikely they'll wield two handed swerdes... -2 MAGICAL ATTACK?
Author:  Dreadnought [ Thu Jun 18, 2015 11:45 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Revising the IMAGE and MIRAGE rules - Perception vs Magi
Kharille wrote:
Metal armour. Whereas mystics hate magic armour, sorcerors just hate armour. It makes them miscast spells. Maybe we shoudl have penalties to make it unlikely they'll wield two handed swerdes... -2 MAGICAL ATTACK?


It's not a matter of sorcerers (and elementalists) hating armour (or hating metal), it's a matter of it limiting their movements and as their spells require gesturing, that creates a miscast chance.

More seriously, armour hampers the freedom of movement necessary if the Sorcerer is to make accurate occult gestures - Dragon Warriors, p39.

Mystic spells don't require the use of gestures in this way (p.73).

Warlocks are stated to need to use gestures and incantations. I assume in my games that their gestures are much more sweeping and don't require as much fine work as sorcerers do, relying more on bellowed incantations, explaining why they are only impeded by the heaviest armours.
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