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PostPosted: Fri Sep 04, 2015 6:16 am 
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As people who are reading the Brymstone thread in the newly created 'Fan Projects' forum, will know I am currently putting together a Brymstone map based on the one Dave Morris has on his blog.

Things I've noticed from doing this so far that I've found interesting.

(1) References to the Navy suggests Thuland has a navy. If Thuland does, I'd assume other nations like Albion do as well. Organised navies are actually reasonably unusual in our own world's medieval history - maybe this reflects the Mercanians carrying on their raiding until quite recently or at least concerns that they might start again! We do have a reference in the core rules to warships.

(2) Coffee Houses exist as places of both social gathering and business dealings (even though what they are serving isn't actually coffee. Again, this is more a feature of later history in our own world.

Just a couple of illustrations that drawing too much on real history isn't always the best thing to do in DW. Yes, a lot of it is like our world in a particular period, but - within limits - we can draw in things from other times. I am relieved at this because there are some later ideas from the late medieval period, and even the early renaissance that I like bringing into my games in some form, and it feels like such practices can be considered 'Dave Morris endorsed'.

For example, in my version of Ongus, while I don't have printing in the modern sense, I assume that (relatively) mass book production is more of a thing earlier than it probably was in our earlier history. There are Scriptoriums that specialise in turning out simple unadorned pages, written by hand by young scribes without any ornamentation - just simple handwriting. Books aren't cheap but these simple ones aren't prohibitively expensive either. (Many of the scribes aren't actually literate - just good at copying - which can make some of the books interesting - and I have run one game where the characters found themselves investigating which young scribe (who was very literate) was adding his own additions to certain works for his own amusement. Woodcut printing is also a thing - which again matches the Brymstone information - even if moveable type isn't.

Plate armour could also be regarded as anachronistic...

Anybody got others - things they like adding...

Oh, I should also mention potatoes are taking my version of Albion by storm - it may be happening elsewhere as well but I haven't written or set anything there yet.

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 04, 2015 7:07 am 
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In my campaign barony, one of the villages cultivates a narcotic akin to tobacco. I also have a tendency to refer to non-native species of tree and bush every now and again, but more by accident than by design!

For me it's about striking a balance between making the game world familiar enough to the players for them to immerse themselves into it, but authentic enough to make it different from just-another-fantasy-world. I wouldn't pretend or presume to always get that balance right, though!

As for the Brymstone stuff, I was going to tone down the reference to navies, although I did like the idea of 'coffee' shops. I can see them having sprung up in response to punitive alcohol duties that, whilst long since repealed, continue to endure despite the competition from taverns.

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 04, 2015 8:52 am 
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Dreadnought wrote:
In my campaign barony, one of the villages cultivates a narcotic akin to tobacco.


Tobacco, or rather Tahac, is definitely canonical. So are eucalyptus leaves (from the demonologist stuff) even though there were definitely no eucalyptus trees anywhere near 12th century Europe.

I believe two handed swords were a product of the later middle ages, being in part a reaction to the heavier mounted troops that existed.

Also, didn't the Byzantines, the Venetians, and the Chinese have navies at that period? I don't have my books on hand so I'm not sure.

Cheers,

-Kyle


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 04, 2015 2:22 pm 
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WodenKrait wrote:
Also, didn't the Byzantines, the Venetians, and the Chinese have navies at that period? I don't have my books on hand so I'm not sure.


Navies did exist in some places, but they were unusual and in Scotland, and England (which I think are generally accepted to be 'models' for Albion and Thuland to at least some extent), they weren't a feature at the period which seems to correspond best to the period I regard Legend as closely equivalent to. Occasional forces were raised, but generally Scotland is not considered to have had any sort of 'standing' navy (as opposed to a temporary force) until the 14th century at the earliest (and the 15th century is really a better date for this). England is about a hundred years later (although they had something like a standard force prior to the Norman Conquest as well - it just lapsed).

(At least this is what I remember from the Naval history I was taught as a Naval cadet).

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 04, 2015 6:51 pm 
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Dreadnought wrote:

(At least this is what I remember from the Naval history I was taught as a Naval cadet).


All I remember from naval cadets is being designated lookout while the POs smoked durries and made out....and shooting and sailing....

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 04, 2015 8:29 pm 
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I think a lot of the anachronistic elements in the Lands of Legend - at least when compared with real-world history - probably stem from two key drivers: 1) the blank canvas nature of the setting prior to Book 6, in which multiple GMs(?) contributed (e.g. I believe that the Rathurbosk concept was contributed by Leo Hartas if I recall correctly), and 2) the marketing of DW as a direct competitor to D&D1 (i.e. "orcs? what sort of fantasy RPG doesn't have orcs?").

I would certainly suggest that the flexible accomodation of multiple concepts from late Norman/Anglo-Saxon through to late medieval is a good thing, provided that those concepts can still survive a "Robin of Sherwood test" (in the case of Ellesland, at least!). In my opinion, gaming groups would benefit if anachronisms possess a limited impact so as to be easily ignored/tailored according to GM and player preferences.

For example, in the case of Thuland I would find a rough "navy" based on longship raiders from a Mercanian-style culture to be plausible, if not actually historically accurate from a real-world perspective. A professional navy in the post-Hundred Years War sense not-so-much.

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 04, 2015 8:35 pm 
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...and also the Excalibur and Dragonslayer tests, of course.

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 04, 2015 10:56 pm 
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WodenKrait wrote:
Dreadnought wrote:
In my campaign barony, one of the villages cultivates a narcotic akin to tobacco.


Tobacco, or rather Tahac, is definitely canonical. So are eucalyptus leaves (from the demonologist stuff) even though there were definitely no eucalyptus trees anywhere near 12th century Europe.

I believe two handed swords were a product of the later middle ages, being in part a reaction to the heavier mounted troops that existed.

Also, didn't the Byzantines, the Venetians, and the Chinese have navies at that period? I don't have my books on hand so I'm not sure.

Cheers,

-Kyle


I got the impression from Bloodsword and the Rathurbosk that Tahac is significantly......stronger....than tobacco.

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 05, 2015 6:38 pm 
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I'd caution getting too caught up in the 'historical' accuracy of Legend - though much is derived from the medieval periods of the real world, it is not our Earth. Magic is real, as are all manner of supernatural beings and realms, and this fact alone is enough to change the scope of available technology and beliefs.

I've personally found that the analogy of the True Faith vs Christianity has been somewhat over-emphasised in recent fan versions of Legend, especially concerning the denouncing of sorcery and the victimisation of magical practitioners. This is Legend - not only is sorcery very real (and in some places, very established), but it's a potent tool of all powerful organisations, the church included (see adventures such as 'A Box of Old Bones' as a good example). While commoners may very well distrust magic, and be quick to lay blame for their woes at its doorstep, in a world where witches and warlocks can actually possess significant power, you would not get away with arbitrary lynchings without significant and detrimental consequences.

Common folk may distrust the sorcerer who took up residence in the old mill down by Oeric's Ford, but they aren't going to do anything about it unless backed up by the local constabulary and given the blessing of the local lord - who is more likely to act cautiously, and enquire as to what 'services' said sorcerer may provide. As any noble will know, young magicians tend to have masters, and old sorcerers, well they didn't get to be old without good reason. Unless actively undermining the local law, a sorcerer is a valuable and rare asset, and something you do not want to anger without good cause.


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 06, 2015 3:49 am 
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wimlach wrote:
I've personally found that the analogy of the True Faith vs Christianity has been somewhat over-emphasised in recent fan versions of Legend, especially concerning the denouncing of sorcery and the victimisation of magical practitioners. This is Legend - not only is sorcery very real (and in some places, very established), but it's a potent tool of all powerful organisations, the church included (see adventures such as 'A Box of Old Bones' as a good example). While commoners may very well distrust magic, and be quick to lay blame for their woes at its doorstep, in a world where witches and warlocks can actually possess significant power, you would not get away with arbitrary lynchings without significant and detrimental consequences.

Common folk may distrust the sorcerer who took up residence in the old mill down by Oeric's Ford, but they aren't going to do anything about it unless backed up by the local constabulary and given the blessing of the local lord - who is more likely to act cautiously, and enquire as to what 'services' said sorcerer may provide. As any noble will know, young magicians tend to have masters, and old sorcerers, well they didn't get to be old without good reason. Unless actively undermining the local law, a sorcerer is a valuable and rare asset, and something you do not want to anger without good cause.


In my own version of Legend, the well educated tend to be reasonably accepting of magic as long as it isn't accompanied by anything seen as heresy - a sensible sorcerer who wants to stay out of trouble may make sure he attends Church on Haligdae and if asked about the source of their powers may well describe it as a combination of a gift from God, and careful scholarship. But if you go around professing beliefs that the Church sees as pagan, you could be heading towards trouble anyway... and if you do magic on top of that...

The less educated tend to have more of a problem with the idea of magic, but, as you say, taking on a true magician is dangerous and so they are likely to just let them go about their business unaided. When somebody is accused of witchcraft it may well be that they have no real powers at all, but have simply falling victim to superstition.

People also tend to have more of a problem with 'secret wizards' than they do with those who are open about what they do. People expect a sorcerer to dress the part so he's not trying to hide what he is (more true of powerful sorcerers than lower rank ones).

'Witches' do occasionally fall foul of the Church, and may face an ecclesiastical court, but in Albion (where most of my games are set) even if they are found guilty, the penalties imposed are more likely than not to involve penance of some sort, or excommunication. There have been a handful of officially sanctioned 'witch burnings' in Albion over the last twenty years but they are so rare that they inspire considerable discussion when they do occur, and those who are better informed about the cases tend to know that the true crime was serious heresy, rather than just the use of magic.

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