Dragon Warriors
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Expanded rules for running away?
http://forum.libraryofhiabuor.net/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=270
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Author:  Kharille [ Fri Feb 03, 2017 7:17 am ]
Post subject:  Expanded rules for running away?

Men do it, orcs do it, undead can be ordered to do it. But I think there is a lot of room for expanding on EVASION rules and getting out of trouble. Surely if a player discards his weapons and starts ripping off his armour he might gain some additional bonus? I believe this was happening in medieval times all the time. I think of it as a way to preserve low ranking foolish players and hotbloods who bite off more than they can chew. Also orcs need love too.


With the rules as they stand its very simplified but I think we could introduce factors such as giving a default 5m running/2.5m moving bonus for those with higher reflexes, like 13-15 and maybe double for 16-18. It would also be a start, a base for new terrain rules.

Author:  howareyou [ Fri Feb 03, 2017 8:21 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Expanded rules for running away?

Correct me if I am mistaken, but I remember some basic DW rules for 2 situations: retreating, and outright turning to run. What new stuff can we expect expanded rules to bring to gameplay and campaigning?

Author:  Kharille [ Fri Feb 03, 2017 8:24 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Expanded rules for running away?

Well, some creatures hit and run. I'd do this to increase the survival rate of fleeing orcs and goblins. This might fit in with a revision of morale rules. Not every individual fights to the end like a Ta'ashim fanatic. Also increases the survival of inexperienced players...

Author:  Cobwebbed Dragon [ Fri Feb 03, 2017 9:53 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Expanded rules for running away?

There seem to be 2 things coming out of this thread - not every human moves at the same speed and there need to be more tactical options for using movement in combat.

The first can be addressed by applying modifiers to the base movement speed:
  1. Reduce base Reflexes score for wearing armour
  2. One's base Reflexes score modifies one's base movement speed.
  3. One's Evasion score adds to base movement (giving Assassins and Barbarians a slight edge in speed)

How might this work in practice? Without playtesting or doing much research on how fast humans can move, possibly something like this:
  • Padded leather has no modifier to Reflexes, but hardened leather reduces it by 1, chain and ring mail by 2, and plate by 3.
  • Attack, Defence, Evasion, and Stealth modifiers are based on the character's Reflexes score after modifying for armour.
  • Base human speed is 6 + Evasion in metres per combat round (note that Evasion may also be further modified if armour reduces a character's Reflexes score below 8).
  • Speed is further modified by Reflexes (again, after any armour modifiers to Reflexes):
    • 3-5, -3m
    • 6-8, -1m
    • 13-15, +1m
    • 16-18, +3m
    • 19+, +5m

Consider a 5th rank barbarian in chain armour with a Reflexes of 13. Chain armour modifies that down to 11 and results in an Evasion score of 6, meaning the barbarian can move 12m per combat round (base 6m, plus 6m for Evasion). If the Barbarian tore off his armour to run away, his Reflexes returns to 12 (+1 to movement and +1 to Evasion), which means he could flee at 14m per combat round.

I use a skills system in my games, so would allow a "Running" skill that improved movement rates in combat (and would have non-combat uses, too, of course).

As for the second aspect, additional tactical options for movement, maybe some skills of the mighty to enable warrior professions to move more than a quarter of their movement and still attack (and perhaps split that increased movement, so they move through the attack and end their turn outside the range of an easy counter-attack - consider a "charge" manoeuvre to double the distance that can be moved and still attack, and later supplemented by a "charge through" manoeuvre that further increases movement in combat and enables an attack to be made at any point during that movement. Having a warhorse, of course, should mean you can already do this, of course.

Thoughts and builds are always welcome!

Author:  Kharille [ Fri Feb 03, 2017 2:07 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Expanded rules for running away?

Yeah I think there needs to be some guidelines on chase scenes. Nothing too complex though. You quickly lose participants, assuming not everyone can keep up at the same speed.

Author:  hermes421 [ Sat Feb 04, 2017 10:55 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Expanded rules for running away?

Hello!
I think movement rules are simple. If you want to be more realistic with removing equipment etc ,
It would be less simple : enemies can do the same thing, :)

But you can make up all the rules you want , if you think it is not too much heavy, :)

Author:  WodenKrait [ Sun Feb 05, 2017 10:10 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Expanded rules for running away?

hermes421 wrote:
Hello!
I think movement rules are simple. If you want to be more realistic with removing equipment etc ,
It would be less simple : enemies can do the same thing, :)

But you can make up all the rules you want , if you think it is not too much heavy, :)


This is the perennial problem with Dragon Warrior's rules (well, one of them anyway) but I think the rules currently err too far on the side of simplicity.

Many moons ago I had house rules for incumbrance which I can't fully remember right now, but basically a character could be unladen, laden, or encumbered. Laden was the normal state in adventuring where you were carrying some significant proportion of your normal limit. Characters could carry more but would then become encumbered and suffer penalties (all combined into a single value called "handicap"). By shedding almost everything they could be unladen. This would provide a bonus to speed and endurance, possibly also Evasion. These were simple enough to be manageable.

I also liked the idea of GURPS style advantages/disadvantages to a few things that the rules didn't cover, and this included movement rate. It would therefore be possible to build a character with Usain Bolt level running, something that is flat out impossible with the normal rules (indeed, a feeble little overweight sorcerer carrying his maximum encumbrance can move just as quickly as a nimble barbarian stripped to a loincloth).

Cheers,

-Kyle

Author:  Cobwebbed Dragon [ Sun Feb 05, 2017 11:10 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Expanded rules for running away?

Kharille wrote:
Yeah I think there needs to be some guidelines on chase scenes. Nothing too complex though. You quickly lose participants, assuming not everyone can keep up at the same speed.

I posted this (viewtopic.php?f=4&t=31#p115) some time ago, which incorporates some very simple chase mechanics. Might be of interest to folks.

Author:  WodenKrait [ Fri Feb 17, 2017 10:34 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Expanded rules for running away?

The more I look at the stats given for movement rates the more they seem ludicrously low. Take a look at the effective running speeds from the rulebook and compare them with low-end known real world speeds (gleaned from wikipedia etc):

Attachment:
speed discrepancies.png
speed discrepancies.png [ 6.71 KiB | Viewed 6143 times ]


Some of these numbers are a bit suspect (can a bear really outrun a horse?) but the differences are too great to put down to the unreliability of the internet. Dave Morris is far to clever to have done this by accident, so does anybody have any theories about why he chose to make the numbers so wrong?

Cheers,

-Kyle

Author:  Kharille [ Fri Feb 17, 2017 11:55 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Expanded rules for running away?

Running is not the same as sprinting. You'd burn out in less than 20 seconds sprinting. The running option would be a sustainable speed.

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