Dragon Warriors

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2018 8:20 pm 
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Interesting youtube vid of viking spear vs breastplate.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NipyfOpJXn8


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2018 8:22 pm 
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In light of the video (I've skimmed it so far), I think that 2d4 ABR isn't that excessive, and he was doing fine damage stabbing one-handed.


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2018 8:31 pm 
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Interesting video. Shows how nasty spears could be. As they're relatively cheap to make, you can understand why they were popular weapons.

..."wouldn't kill him"... Indeed. Considering the layers of padding worn under armour, the wearer of the breastplate would get a nasty bruise, possibly a broken rib. But the demonstration shows a man landing a spear plumb into a breastplate; you have to consider the situation would be different if the wearer was moving, so the breastplate could deflect this incoming spear.


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2018 8:33 pm 
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Starkad wrote:
Interesting video. Shows how nasty spears could be. As they're relatively cheap to make, you can understand why they were popular weapons.

..."wouldn't kill him"... Indeed. Considering the layers of padding worn under armour, the wearer of the breastplate would get a nasty bruise, possibly a broken rib. But the demonstration shows a man landing a spear plumb into a breastplate; you have to consider the situation would be different if the wearer was moving, so the breastplate could deflect this incoming spear.


Now you've said that, the 2d3 does sound better ... I'm conflicted :)


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2018 8:40 pm 
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Now you've said that, the 2d3 does sound better ... I'm conflicted

Awkward, isn't it?

It's also worth thinking "game balance" as well as realism.

2d4 works for a great spear as it's a two-handed weapon. It's got good armour penetration, but it's a decent trade-off for not using a greatsword or battle-axe instead. Keeps the weapon interesting.
d8 makes the spear akin to a sword (it's also the stats given for a javelin)...
2d3 means the one-handed spear is still deadly effective against "soft" armours, but starts to struggle against plate. You do get to use a shield though, or hold a lantern...

All spears only require 1m of fighting space (in direct line), which gives them a real edge against an greatsword or battle-axe (which both require 2m space). In massed combat, or fighting in a corridor, this can make a real difference: a knight with a greatsword could easily find himself facing TWO opponents in the same space...


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2018 8:43 pm 
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I think 2d4 and 2d3 for Great Spear and Standard Spear respectively are good, d8/d6 if stabbing with a Javelin.

(Grapple table done by the way, in Files & Sundries subforum. If it needs improvement, I'm happy to amend it).


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2018 8:59 pm 
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Quote:
I think 2d4 and 2d3 for Great Spear and Standard Spear respectively are good, d8/d6 if stabbing with a Javelin.

I'm coming round (back?) to the thought that this might be the best resolution...

Quote:
I'm happy to amend it.

Looks fine to me.

I should have pointed out that for those kind of skill rolls, I tend to have a "critical success" as being when the character rolls the skill exactly (so if a skill is 18, the critical is on a roll of 18). This is because when the skill exceeds 20, the critical then starts working its way down again (e.g. skill 22 = critical on 18+). It doesn't really matter, as you can have the critical as being on a "1" instead (and increasing if the skill exceeds 20; 21 = 1-2, 22 = 1-3, etc)... It's almost more DW that way, in fact.
(With high Strength and several years' practice, it is perfectly possible for a professional wrestler to have a Grapple skill above 20. Such a character cannot fumble (they're just too good).)


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2018 7:31 am 
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Is Grapple just rolled with Strength, as I think Reflexes and maybe even Intelligence come in there somewhere (maybe +1 for REFLEXES 13-15, +2 for REFLEXES 16-18, +1 for INTELLIGENCE 16-18)?


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2018 6:51 pm 
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Is Grapple just rolled with Strength, as I think Reflexes and maybe even Intelligence come in there somewhere (maybe +1 for REFLEXES 13-15, +2 for REFLEXES 16-18, +1 for INTELLIGENCE 16-18)?

You can apply those modifications if you wish.

In my rules, Grapple refers to the basic competence of grabbing someone and trying to twist their head off. There's not much subtlety or strategy involved, so I have it as a STRENGTH modifier only. If you start introducing "martial arts" (which aren't all that fitting to a DW setting),* then you might consider other Attributes... But perhaps it's also a different skill.

* Unless you set adventures in Khitai or Yamato, of course.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 09, 2018 9:01 am 
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Starkad wrote:
Quote:
"2d4, 3" is a good compromise to make spear and shield a valid but balanced choice over sword and shield.

As I thought about it this morning, I started liking the 2d3 Armour Bypass option again. It makes the short spear very effective against lightly armoured opponents (effectively ignoring leather and penetrating hard leather most of the time), while being relatively ineffective against anyone encased in plate armour (possibly fairly realistically).


I agree that would 2d3 : 3 would not be a viable weapon against plate armour. The matter is there are plenty of knights in plate armour around Mercania. I would like to give a chance to (mercanian) fighters to hit with 2d4 : 3 damages (or personally I would never carry this weapon as a pc :/ )

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