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PostPosted: Wed Apr 11, 2018 3:04 pm 
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We've previously had a post suggesting a weight for armour when carried, rather than worn, of AF+1 items.

What about the weight / encumbrance of a character (without equipment or armour)? There are a couple of reasons why I'm considering this:
a. How easy is it to carry a fallen comrade out of danger, and
b. The carrying limit of horses with or without a rider.

I was thinking of something simple (as its for DW) along the lines of:
Men: STR x 1.5 (rounded up)
Women: STR x 1 (rounded up)*
* Women are usually smaller and lighter than men.

A male character with STR 12, wearing nothing more than ordinary clothes, would count as 18 "items" to carry. A STR 15 man would count as 23 items.
A female character with STR 10, wearing nothing more than ordinary clothes, would count as 10 items.

There would have to be a de minimis limit. A healthy adult man would count as 10 items; a healthy adult woman would be 7 items.
(Emaciated / starving individuals may drop below this limit. It is not impossible for a starving adult to weight the same as a child.)

Obviously, the GM would be free to modify a particular character's encumbrance value (i.e. weight) if the player had described them as being particularly large (tall, fat) or small (short, slender) by a few points up (or down).

I thought this would make characters too heavy... But, if an "item" is about 5 lbs, then a 10-stone (140 lb) man would count as 28 items! So, maybe they're actually a bit light...
(And yes, I know that an "item" is a fairly undefined quantity; but I had to start somewhere.)

Any thoughts?
Has anyone done any work on this before?


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 11, 2018 3:25 pm 
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Didn't go into this much detail, but this is good info. Bearing in mind that people constructing fortifications and stuff will need to take serious looks at encumbrance and productivity.....

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 13, 2018 9:25 am 
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I like the implication that women are inherently stronger than men of a given bodyweight according this rule; a 60kg woman is as strong as a 90kg man!

Cheers,

-Kyle


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 13, 2018 1:07 pm 
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I like the implication that women are inherently stronger than men of a given bodyweight according this rule; a 60kg woman is as strong as a 90kg man!

It's not often games get to be nice / flattering to women! :lol:

It's a good point, though. Perhaps the difference is too great? (Women could be STR x 1.25?)

There's no escaping that fact that women are, on average, lighter than men. The thing is, men are also (on average) stronger than women.* I'm not sure I'd want to restrict the STR attribute of any female PC (e.g. 3d6-1)... unless a corresponding increase in the REF attribute (3d6+1) to offset this? I think this would disadvantage female PC warriors,** which is not really desirable for the game.

* This is borne out be the different weight values for weight-lifting competitions.
** As you all know, a 16+ STR doesn't just affect Attack and Defence, but also gives +1 to ABP and damage. That's a distinct edge over a high REF score.

What do you all think?
Should we, in the interests of game play, use the same value for PC weight?


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 13, 2018 1:36 pm 
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I think SIZE and CONSTITUTION values would be a good idea to have as primary stats, so STRENGTH isn't substituted for half a dozen things - size, poison resistance, lung capacity, etc.


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 13, 2018 1:52 pm 
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I think SIZE and CONSTITUTION values would be a good idea to have as primary stats...

DW does suffer from not having a separate CON attribute (as you say, lots of health-related matters devolve to STR in DW). That said, adding another attribute would be a significant change to the game...

By way of alternative, you could use Health Points (total; before wounds) as a measure of CON?*
* Drawback: the health of high-Rank warriors becomes very "robust"...


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 13, 2018 2:38 pm 
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One could plausibly have lots of HP but low CON, meaning you're full of vitality but fragile. I'm not sure another stats would drastically change the game, though.


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 13, 2018 4:07 pm 
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I'm not sure another stats would drastically change the game, though.

There would have to be modifications for quite a few things... Anything involving fatigue, poison, disease, &c.
This may not be a bad thing - perhaps moving towards "DW II"...

...But it doesn't help me determine how much characters weigh.

So far, I seem to be settling for a character weight of about 15-18 Items for a STR 12 character, with the largest characters weighing in around 22-25 Items. Add on armour and stuff in the backpack, and their fellows are going to have their work cut out to drag them out of whatever pit they've fallen into!
(There are no rules in DW for "dragging"... perhaps you can drag your max x2? So, a STR 16 character could carry 14 Items, but could drag 28?)

Now... What does this mean for the carrying capacity of a horse? I'm sure I read somewhere that an average pack horse (or sumpter) can carry about 400 lbs. This could to around 40 Items (twice what saddlebags hold). Thus, a pack horse could carry two average bodies slung over its back...

I'll have to think further what this means for riding and war horses. Warhorses (chargers) tend to be strong, but without a lot of stamina (so you can load them down with knight, armour and barding - but not for too long without resting them)...


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2018 10:10 am 
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Time to talk about my old House Rules!

My Characteristics are: Strength, Reflexes, Intelligence, Psychic Talent, Looks, Senses, Charisma, Willpower, Constitution, and Size.

Size is rolled on 2d6+3 (Women) and 2d6+4 (Men) and equal to about 7kg per size point. HP are determined by Size and Constitution.

Having ten characteristics has all sorts of ramifications, but overall its great to have characteristics covering so many basic attributes because it eliminates all the sort of faffing around trying to reverse engineer characteristics etc to arrive at bodyweight etc.

Cheers,

-Kyle


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2018 10:05 pm 
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My Characteristics are: Strength, Reflexes, Intelligence, Psychic Talent, Looks, Senses, Charisma, Willpower, Constitution, and Size.

How does "Senses" match up with existing Perceptions characteristics?

Quote:
Size is rolled on 2d6+3 (Women) and 2d6+4 (Men) and equal to about 7kg per size point. HP are determined by Size and Constitution.

Just like in King Arthur Pendragon... Do the characters gain in HP as they gain in Ranks?

Quote:
Having ten characteristics has all sorts of ramifications, but overall its great to have characteristics covering so many basic attributes because it eliminates all the sort of faffing around trying to reverse engineer characteristics etc to arrive at bodyweight etc.

Yes it does. I used to have lots of "house rules" like this, until I realised I was actually playing a completely different game, just set in the DW world. I have since opted for "bolt on" rules which add to the game, but don't fundamentally change it - i.e. if you removed all my house rules, the basic rulebook would be there and waiting.
(Not to everyone's taste, I know... But it was a challenge I set myself and I've stuck to that since then. Otherwise, if I fancy a change, I'll pick a different set of game rules and play those.)


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