Dragon Warriors

I'm not sure if this is what you mean, but I've been noodling around with the open source Godot game engine with the goal of creating a basic (2d) combat simulator for DW. It wouldn't be a game, but rather a gamer's aid and combat scenario tester. I think there's merit in making combat quicker and less tedious in DW, and if some software could do that I'd consider the effort worthwhile.

If I make any progress on that I'll let everybody know.

Cheers,

-Kyle

I wasn't suggesting that the Thane is an appropriate substitution for Barbarian, just that it does a better job of portraying a fighting profession from a different culture. I'm all for replacing the barbarian profession with a more rank-and-file fighting profession like a mercenary, though. Some choice for players that want to play a fighter from Albion, but don't want all the social baggage that comes with playing a Knight.

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The barbarian versus thane discussion seems very similar to the debates in 3rd edition D&D about closed versus open class systems - that is, about whether there's a small number of classes that can be used to describe a wide range of types of person in game (such as the DW barbarian or the D&D fighter) or a large number of classes that describe a specific type of person in game (such as the DW thane or the D&D champion of Corellon Lorethian, which was a prestige class specifically for Elven knights who worshipped that god and who had a specific fighting style).

Personally, I prefer closed class systems - I know that means the classes tend to be defined more in terms of generic mechanical effects (such as "this is the class that swaps defence for a bonus to attack") than in terms of distinctive mechanical effects, but that has the advantage of limiting the number of classes that have to be balanced against each other for playability.

Cheers,

Gary Johnson

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If a game system is definitely going to be class-based (although I loathe that term in this context; class should mean where you are in the social pecking order, not what your profession is!) then I'm inclined to agree, provided each class (ech!) has suffient potential to grow and change as it develops. Having all sixth-rank sorcerers virtually the same apart from their descriptive window-dressing (Gravulox the Grey, Wizard from the Gloomy Isles in the Grey Sea north of Cape Calogon, meet Tinh Buon Truong, spellbinder from the golden glass mountains south of Khitai. Hey! what do you know! Our spells, potions, and magical artefacts all do exactly the same thing!) is depressing once you've been playing for a while, and tends to encourage GMs to 'roll their own' sooner or later.

Also, balance is only a problem if you care about it and if your GM thinks he's running World of Warcraft on a tabletop. Nobody ever cared that a university professor and a mercenary in Dark Conspiracy weren't "balanced".

Cheers,

-Kyle

Bears? No, the're just big fluffy-wuffy LOLcats! Awww, ain't they cute?

Does your cutting-room floor hold more prized treasures, perchance...?



Indubitably!

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Show me the mythic legends, mighty heroes and mysterious faerie creatures!

Or if you want to equally share out spotlight time during play sessions, or make sure all characters can contribute to whatever's important enough to be covered during sessions. When almost everything a class does is about combat, then you can expect combat to be a major part of what's covered during sessions, and thus a major contributor to how spotlight time is shared out - so if you don't want to have Shadowrun-style "only the hackers can do things in cyberspace, and the hackers are ineffectual at doing anything outside of cyberspace" game sessions, considerations of balance in character design and function matter.

Cheers,

Gary Johnson

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Its cool, I understand fully what people mean when they talk about balance: balance in combat. Hence my WoW remark. The issue as I see it is that the presumption is that a 'class' must fit the mould of being capable in combat to be worthwhile to play (in a role playing game, I must stress). This limitation need only apply if you know that combat is going to predominate in your games. Hence my "if you care about it" remark.

To put it another way, Bilbo or Frodo would never have made good character options if you applied the 'balance' criterion. But who would you rather roleplay, one of those hobbits, or Soldier 36,502 in the army of Gondor?

To put it yet another way: who said you need to be kickin' arse just to get your share of the spotlight?

Cheers,

-Kyle

I think we can expand the Barbarian profession. I really believe the Mungodan and Kurland ones should have higher stealth and perception in their native terrain. The Kurland ones were famous for taking apart Selentine armies using terrain. Teutoberg forest et al.

The thane is specific to a certain geographical area right? Not generic enough.

We need to revise the experience points system. A Halfling who identifies a massive army of orcs and helps the players hide from it should get good experience. I thought the Palladium Fantasy system had a good experience system.

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Speech!





And so the show begins!!!
https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/dwp ... ssages/640

Here's a repost of some simple rules I originally posted a few years back on the Dragwars group:

DW Barbarians

Here's some quick rules I knocked up for a slightly more varied take on the Barbarian profession, which as it stands only really represents the stereotypical Mercanian or Thulish warrior, and doesn't comfortably reflect barbarians of other cultures.

Note I have added three new skills to the mix (and defined some swimming rules) - Expert Swimmer, Horse Archery & Master Slinger. I'll explain these first before going into the changes to the Barbarian Profession.

Basic Swimming Rules
Usually a character is unable to swim unless their background would suggest otherwise. If in doubt, roll a D6 - Knights, Barbarians & Assassins can swim on a roll of 1-3. Other professions can only swim on the roll of a 1.

When swimming a character may move through the water at a rate of 3m per combat round

If trying to swim encumbered or in rough water, a Strength roll on D20 is required, with a penalty equal to the number of items carried and the basic AF of any armour worn. Even if this roll is failed, they may attempt to recover each subsequent round, though with a penalty of minus 1 for each consecutive failed attempt - on a success they manage to reach the surface and grab a breath. Failure results in the character beginning to drown, and they can only survive submerged as for as long as their breath holds out.

A non-swimmer can hold their breath for rounds equal to their strength. Then they will begin to drown, falling unconscious and dying in rounds equal to their strength unless removed from the water and given first aid.

If attacked while swimming, a character can only engage an aquatic enemy with a penalty of -4 to Attack and -8 to Defence, and must still make a successful Strength roll to avoid drowning.

Expert Swimmer
An expert swimmer can move far more confidently through the water, and moves up to 5m per combat round at full stroke. He can hold his breath for twice as long as a normal person (rounds equal to Strength score x2), and when swimming encumbered only deducts half the usual penalty. When making swimming rolls, an expert swimmer may use Strength or Reflexes (whichever is higher) to determine success.

An expert swimmer can fight aquatic enemies with only half the usual penalty; they suffer -2 to Attack and -4 to Defence.

Horse Archery
The warrior may fire a normal bow from horseback (or indeed any moving platform) with no penalty. Normally attempting such a feat without this skill halves the archers normal basic Attack score (before taking into account further penalties due to range or illumination). This skill can only be taken if the warrior can ride warhorses and is also a Master Bowman (and is normally only available to barbarians of the Eastern Steppes in any case).

Master Slinger
This skill is exactly the same as the Master Bowman skill, but covers the use of slings rather than bows.

Barbarians
The basic attributes (such as Attack, Defence etc.) remain unchanged from the published rules. However, the homeland of the Barbarian determines their starting skills. Note that Wearing Medium Armour, Berserk, Track and Ride Warhorse are no longer abilities exhibited by all Barbarians universally! Some limited skills of the mighty are available from 8th rank onward. Main Gauche is now available to Barbarians as a 'Skill of the Mighty', but cannot be used in conjunction with Berserk or Bloodrage, for obvious reasons. A few barbarians have access to skills normally outside of the Knight or Barbarian profession - Climb, Unarmed Combat, Arrow Cutting and Adepthood. These are treated exactly as the original skills.

Mercanian
Expert Swimmer
Berserk
Wear Medium Armour (can wear up to AF4 with no penalty)
Skills of the Mighty (may choose one skill per rank from 8th onward - Ride Warhorse, Bloodrage, Main Gauche, Weaponskill)

Thulish
Track
Berserk
Wear Medium Armour (can wear up to AF4 with no penalty)
Skills of the Mighty (may choose one skill per rank from 8th onward - Ride Warhorse, Bloodrage, Main Gauche, Weaponskill)

Eastern Steppe
Track
Wear Light Armour (can wear up to AF3 with no penalty)
Ride Warhorse
Master Bowman
Horse Archery
Skills of the Mighty (may choose one skill per rank from 8th onward - Wear Medium Armour, Main Gauche, Weaponskill)

Gnawing Wastes
Track
Berserk
Wear Light Armour (can wear up to AF3 with no penalty)
Master Bowman
Skills of the Mighty (may choose one skill per rank from 8th onward - Ride Warhorse, Bloodrage, Main Gauche, Weaponskill)

Trackless Ooze
Expert Swimmer
Track
Wear Light Armour (can wear up to AF3 with no penalty)
Climb
Berserk
Skills of the Mighty (may choose one skill per rank from 8th onward - Bloodrage, Wear Medium Armour, Main Gauche, Weaponskill)

Emphidor
Expert Swimmer
Track
Climb
Wear Light Armour (can wear up to AF3 with no penalty)
Master Slinger
Skills of the Mighty (may choose one skill per rank from 8th onward - Ride Warhorse, Wear Medium Armour, Main Gauche, Weaponskill)

Harogarn
Track
Wear Light Armour (can wear up to AF3 with no penalty)
Arrow Cutting
Unarmed Combat
Skills of the Mighty (may choose one skill per rank from 8th onward - Ride Warhorse, Adepthood, Main Gauche, Weaponskill)

Drakken Peaks
Expert Swimmer
Track
Wear Light Armour (can wear up to AF3 with no penalty)
Climb
Master Bowman
Skills of the Mighty (may choose one skill per rank from 8th onward - Ride Warhorse, Wear Medium Armour, Main Gauche, Weaponskill)

Kiakuhuru
Track
Berserk
Wear Medium Armour (can wear up to AF4 with no penalty)
Skills of the Mighty (may choose one skill per rank from 8th onward - Ride Warhorse, Bloodrage, Main Gauche, Weaponskill)

Zhenir
Ride Warhorse
Berserk
Medium Armour
Skills of the Mighty (may choose one skill per rank from 8th onward - Track, Bloodrage, Main Gauche, Weaponskill)

Mistral Sea
Expert Swimmer
Track
Climb
Wear Light Armour (can wear up to AF3 with no penalty)
Berserk
Skills of the Mighty (may choose one skill per rank from 8th onward - Bloodrage, Wear Medium Armour, Main Gauche, Weaponskill)

Azure Coast
Expert Swimmer
Track
Wear Light Armour (can wear up to AF3 with no penalty)
Climb
Berserk
Skills of the Mighty (may choose one skill per rank from 8th onward - Bloodrage, Wear Medium Armour, Main Gauche, Weaponskill)

Thanagost Peaks
Track
Wear Light Armour (can wear up to AF3 with no penalty)
Weaponskill Spear
Master Slinger
Skills of the Mighty (may choose one skill per rank from 8th onward - Ride Warhorse, Wear Medium Armour, Main Gauche, Weaponskill)

Mungoda
Track
Expert Swimmer
Climb
Master Slinger
Wear Light Armour (can wear up to AF3 with no penalty)
Skills of the Mighty (may choose one skill per rank from 8th onward - Wear Medium Armour, Main Gauche, Weaponskill)

Cosh Goyope
Track
Expert Swimmer
Climb
Master Bowman
Wear Light Armour (can wear up to AF3 with no penalty)
Skills of the Mighty (may choose one skill per rank from 8th onward - Wear Medium Armour, Main Gauche, Weaponskill)

Great Minds think alike......for the most part.

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co-author Friends or Foes
co-author Dragon Warriors Players Guide
co-author Cold Fury
co-author Cadaver Draconis
co-author Ordo Draconis 1 and 2.