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PostPosted: Tue Feb 17, 2015 12:27 am 
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Cobwebbed Dragon wrote:
I don't like indirect attack spells - for me, the flashy incendiary spells are the province of high fantasy systems like, well, almost all of them except DW. Better are the subtle, insidious effects of direct spells and those that defile the weak minds of non-magickers with doubts about the reality in which they live.


It looks like there isn't much in the way of protection against indirect attack spells either. There are defences a spell user can erect to defend against direct attack spells, but the indirect attack spells (especially at higher levels) deal out masses of damage with a high speed!

I also like the spell expiry roll. Who ever said magic was predictable? Maybe you could adjust it some way based on the spell user's rank with respect to the spell rank. As the caster gets more experienced he can cpntrol the lower rank spells easier.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 17, 2015 12:03 pm 
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It always seemed odd to me that Indirect Attack spells are always dead on target; unless the target dodges, they will hit. The lethality of these spells could be greatly diminished simply by requiring an Attack roll by the Sorcerer, Warlock etc.

Cheers,

-Kyle


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 18, 2015 6:13 pm 
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WodenKrait wrote:
It always seemed odd to me that Indirect Attack spells are always dead on target; unless the target dodges, they will hit. The lethality of these spells could be greatly diminished simply by requiring an Attack roll by the Sorcerer, Warlock etc.

Isn't that what Speed vs. Evasion represents? Given how feeble sorcerers are without spells, it seems reasonable that the ones they do cast are effective. Dragonbreath is fine for scaring peasants, and will work on your more sluggish low-ranked adventurers, but is too slow to be reliable. So you're really looking at Shadowbolt before the sorcerer gets a decent indirect attack spell that has a chance of incapacitating someone before they can get close enough to the sorcerer to do some real harm, and even high ranked sorcerers can't cast many shadowbolts a day - a 6th rank sorcerer can only throw 5 shadowbolts per day, only 3 or 4 of which are likely to hit. The 17HP damage each bolt will do, on average, will be enough to take down a most young adventurers, but not an average 6th rank knight.

I like that DW has a dangerous combat system and deadly spells - it ensures the characters don't always try the frontal approach (which is why typically happens in a lot of FRPGs), they use tactics, they bargain, etc. In other words, they role-play :).

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 19, 2015 10:04 am 
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I understand it from a game mechanics standpoint, just not from a logical one. It follows (to me, at least) that if a sorcerer could fashion a spell to shoot laser beams it would be literally impossible for a victim to not be hit by one, for instance.

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 19, 2015 2:10 pm 
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Maybe an attack roll based on MAGICAL ATTACK instead of their hand to hand ATTACK?

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 20, 2015 2:00 am 
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How about average of ATTACK and SPEED vs. average of DEFENCE and EVASION?

Or are we just getting ridiculous here? ALternatively speed/evasion could just modify the attack/defence score.


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 20, 2015 4:34 am 
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NickDaniel wrote:
How about average of ATTACK and SPEED vs. average of DEFENCE and EVASION?

Or are we just getting ridiculous here? ALternatively speed/evasion could just modify the attack/defence score.


I wouldn't do this - I like these spells not getting more dangerous as rank increases, because I feel that is already reflected in the existence of what I see as more powerful versions of the same spell (Deathlight is a refinement of Shadowbolt which is a refinement of Dragonbreath - in my own games, I've spent quite a bit of time considering the 'history of magical research' and how the current 'canon of spells' was developed) but if I was going to do this, I think I'd drop the SPEED of each spell by 3, and then apply the casters EVASION to those speeds.)

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 20, 2015 7:06 am 
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Dreadnought wrote:
I wouldn't do this - I like these spells not getting more dangerous as rank increases, because I feel that is already reflected in the existence of what I see as more powerful versions of the same spell (Deathlight is a refinement of Shadowbolt which is a refinement of Dragonbreath - in my own games, I've spent quite a bit of time considering the 'history of magical research' and how the current 'canon of spells' was developed) but if I was going to do this, I think I'd drop the SPEED of each spell by 3, and then apply the casters EVASION to those speeds.)


I may as well share this here - it's still a draft but it's how I see the Sorcerer Spells in Dragon Warriors as having developed from each other.

Most - virtually all - Sorcerers have no idea of this but a few of the best who seriously study their theory and the ones who try to develop new spells sometimes get some insight.

If the enlightenment ever hits Legend...


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 22, 2015 11:00 am 
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Despite my remarks, I don't actually advocate making indirect magical attacks dependent upon a successful attack roll, mainly because that complicates things but also because this odd situation is easily rationalised: the spells, being magical, always go exactly where the sorcerer is looking at the moment he casts them. Even if he is off target (as far as where his hands are or whatever) when he hurls his Firestorm, it will be on the correct trajectory for a bullseye anyway. Only if the target moves in the time it takes for the fireball to get to him will it miss.

Dreadnought wrote:
I may as well share this here - it's still a draft but it's how I see the Sorcerer Spells in Dragon Warriors as having developed from each other.


This is very interesting (if a bit hard to read...) and makes sense to me. I'm not sure I would have magical barriers related to physical ones (spell screen and mantlet, for instance) and in my mind Armour is more closely related to Vorpal Blade than to Bastion, but this is nitpicking. Other ideas: the spells that generate physical force could be related (Portal, Mantlet, Burden) Curse and Warding are probably related (one is bad luck, the other is good luck) and transfix seems to me to be in the same genus as command and enslave. Likewise Detect Aura and Dispel Magic, and Dispel Magic and Spell Screen/Wall of Magic are probably distant relatives too.

Very cool!

Cheers,

-Kyle


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