Dragon Warriors
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Expanding on the equipment list? - crescentium steel....
http://forum.libraryofhiabuor.net/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=89
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Author:  Kharille [ Fri Mar 20, 2015 2:44 pm ]
Post subject:  Expanding on the equipment list? - crescentium steel....

Thinking about the adventuring gear. How come I don't see the 10' long poles? But seriously I think it can be expanded on since it hasn't changed much. Maybe we should have stats on how much a mule can carry compared to a horse.

Also there must be stuff unique to various locations in legend. I'm sure there is a market for exotic weapons or stuff made from special alloys. Maybe stuff that is easy to maintain. What about Khitan crossbows or Thuland two handed swords? Perhaps people would appreciate Mungodan clubs or Emphidian armour?

Maybe we can list suggestions? How about Yamatese sha-ken for assassins? Or Ta'shim curved short swords?

I suppose the stats for some weapons or items can be the same, but they would look unique. How about a Yamatese katana?

Author:  WodenKrait [ Fri Mar 20, 2015 9:59 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Expanding on the equipment list? - crescentium steel....

I'm a bit dull but I like equipment lists that cover more mundane stuff, like livestock, cabbages, university tuition fees, and furniture. I've got one (derived from prices in various mediaeval sources) which I'll upload to the file section in case anybody's interested.

Cheers,

-Kyle

Author:  Dreadnought [ Fri Mar 20, 2015 11:02 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Expanding on the equipment list? - crescentium steel....

I use Nim's Equipment List in my own games which is still available as a shared file in the DRAGWARS group. I'd certainly like to see other expanded ideas... hmm, maybe I should share the menu for the Tavern that serves as a base for my PCs in my Tuesday night game...

Author:  Kharille [ Sat Mar 21, 2015 2:19 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Expanding on the equipment list? - crescentium steel....

Maybe in some places in the wastes of Krarth they use more in the way of locally available materials, possibly stuff made from bone. I suppose it is irrelevant if you don't travel much. But surely leather armour is more easy to come by in some locations. And so nations with high iron production might have cheaper plate.

Maybe one day we can expand the equipment list to take into account general availability. What if your nation is at war? Surely prices of iron would go up. And maybe salvaged weapons can be sold to players cheaply from scavengers. What about players flogging hardware?

Author:  Cobwebbed Dragon [ Wed Mar 25, 2015 8:26 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Expanding on the equipment list? - crescentium steel....

I like the idea of cultural variety in the equipment lists, and mundane items made from exotic materials make for rewarding alternatives to magical items. However, the danger with this is that you encumber this variety with needless game mechanics - for example, does Crescentium Steel make longswords with +1 Attack or damage (or both?) And what happens if you have a +1 magical Crescentium Steel blade? Is it +1 for everything except Attack, which is then +2, or does the benefit of the steel get lost in the enchantment?

In my (early) house rules, I had broad categories of quality (Shoddy, Poor, Average, Superior, Outstanding, and Superlative), which had some game effects on weapons, armour and a few other bits and pieces, and a commensurate multiplier in the cost. However, there was a lot of book-keeping and whilst you could interpret an 'Outstanding' sword as being forged from fine steel or by a master bladesmith, I'd rather such items were unique and exciting pieces, as rare to the PCs as magic items. So now my characters can only buy bog-standard equipment from the markets they encounter - anything as exciting as a Crescentium Steel blade would be the subject of an adventure...

And you might guess that my characters don't travel much - there's plenty of adventure to be had in a single barony, without having to travel far beyond the borders of the kingdom! And that's the style of adventure that I think Dragon Warriors lends itself to. I leave the inter-continental adventuring to the high fantasy systems where such things are easier to facilitate.

Author:  Kharille [ Thu Mar 26, 2015 11:55 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Expanding on the equipment list? - crescentium steel....

Well, I figure some places like Krarth it'll be hard to work iron. But maybe they'll have access to some nice materials like salt resistant bone knives that won't corrode and popular amongst sailors. Maybe some kind of walrus tooth dagger. Maybe there are advantages to bone materials.

And also what about using crocodile skin to create armours? Boar skins? I think some of those animals have a high natural AF but I can't be bothered checking my boots right now.

And hey, maybe some kind of Bone armour might even float in water....

Read in a certain novel that some Asian warriors used rattan for armour, helped them swim rivers too.

Author:  WodenKrait [ Sun Mar 29, 2015 11:57 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Expanding on the equipment list? - crescentium steel....

I've just put up a new file in the relevant forum covering some prices for goods and services and a handful of typical wages and fees. It's based on historical information and I hope its of some interest.

Cheers,

-Kyle

Author:  Kharille [ Sun Mar 29, 2015 2:15 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Expanding on the equipment list? - crescentium steel....

Hm... theres a thought. I just love working with excel. I really believe its possible to enter in a lot of figures and to make some macro adjustments, enter in a discount for a high players looks score and see all the prices move at once.

Not sure if I have time to put something like that together. But maybe one day we can create a merchant class, and all this will become relevant.

I also think there should be a system of fencing stolen goods, selling captured arms and armour to smiths. Prices are for a new set of armour and some limitations such as availability of raw materials and the economy would be a factor. Maybe a new category of 'major port' or 'commercial capital' should be in place. I mean, what about Ongus? Should be 100% availability for everything, except for the most exotic imports like Mungodan fruit or Ta'ashim silks....

also such items should command a high price. I think some players might be willing to spend more to make some items available.

On another topic, its not the mystic way to set up a magic weapon shop, but what stops dwarves selling their goods? Maybe a system where if you're willing to pay 2000% of the price of an item...

We have the time for mystics manufacturing magic weapons. But what about raw material costs?

A brainstorm on the actual effects of flawed weapons would be nice. I think I started a thread on that already somewhere...

Author:  Cobwebbed Dragon [ Sun Mar 29, 2015 8:48 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Expanding on the equipment list? - crescentium steel....

Kharille wrote:
But maybe one day we can create a merchant class, and all this will become relevant.

Please don't... Not sure we need a one-trick-pony profession. Much better to add (Looks-based) bartering skills to the game than to add this as a profession.

Kharille wrote:
I also think there should be a system of fencing stolen goods, selling captured arms and armour to smiths.

This leads to the murder-hobo style of play for which some better-known FRPGs are known and ignores the social context. For example, would a respectable trader risk his reputation on some second-hand goods of dubious provenance presented to him for sale by a bunch of unknown mendicants that came wandering through his village? And to whom does this stuff actually belong? If the adventurers killed someone (even a bad guy) and took his stuff, then it actually belongs to that person's next of kin; if they robbed it from a tomb, then it belongs to whomever owns the land (probably the local lord or church), and anything that carries with it even the slightest whiff of the supernatural is likely to cause the god-fearing folk of Legend to treat such tainted artefacts as diabolical and anyone prepared to brazenly trade in such goods as being in league with the Otherworld. Consider also that plate armour, for example, is only worn by knights, so trotting into town with a 'spare' set of plate armour to sell is going to lead people to conclude, rightly or wrongly, that the characters have just killed a knight, for which there are serious social consequences.

Whilst fencing on the black market is always an option, even a fence will struggle to shift high-value items, so the characters may end up with little return on the investment in time required to solicit such underworld contacts and may do better to gift such items to lords, monasteries, and others whose favours they may, in time, need.

Kharille wrote:
Prices are for a new set of armour and some limitations such as availability of raw materials and the economy would be a factor. Maybe a new category of 'major port' or 'commercial capital' should be in place. I mean, what about Ongus? Should be 100% availability for everything, except for the most exotic imports like Mungodan fruit or Ta'ashim silks....

I agree entirely - capital cities, even those that may be smaller in population than other cities, should always have the greatest concentration of rare items. The examples you give are more trade goods than adventuring goods, but I like the direction in which you're thinking. It's still a little bit too much WFRP than Dragon Warriors for my liking, but I guess with some work you could identify key exports from exotic markets that might find their way to the kitchens and collections of the noble houses of Albion.

Kharille wrote:
On another topic, its not the mystic way to set up a magic weapon shop, but what stops dwarves selling their goods? Maybe a system where if you're willing to pay 2000% of the price of an item... We have the time for mystics manufacturing magic weapons. But what about raw material costs?

To me, magic shops are a bit too high fantasy, be they run by mystics or dwarfs. But you could easily come up with a price by coming up with a simple formula along the lines of...:

Start with a base subsistence rate (3p per day?), then assume that higher-ranked professionals probably want a higher standard of living (multiply subsistence rate by 3 per rank?), then assume a reasonable profit margin (20%?) and then just pump your mystic\dwarf's rank and time through those numbers. Your numbers may differ from mine, but the principle holds.

For example, a 4th rank Mystic producing a +1 sword would charge 3p x 12 (4th rank) x 100 (days) x 1.2 (profit) = 4,320p. Factor in the base cost of the sword (30F) and you could go to market with a +1 sword for 462F. 462F seems quite cheap to me, but if you want magic shops in your campaign you can't price them too high, otherwise there won't be enough of a market for Mystics to bother to create them. And would a world-renowned Adept (12th rank Mystic) be able to charge more for an equivalent +1 sword - is his reputation sufficient to demand a much higher price for the same item given that he may want to maintain a higher standard of living?

As you can probably tell, I'm opposed to magic shops in Dragon Warriors - if you want that high-fantasy magic-shop-in-every-town style of play, there are more appropriate systems you could be playing!

Author:  WodenKrait [ Sun Mar 29, 2015 9:02 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Expanding on the equipment list? - crescentium steel....

Quote:
For example, a 4th rank Mystic producing a +1 sword would charge 3p x 12 (4th rank) x 100 (days) x 1.2 (profit) = 4,320p. Factor in the base cost of the sword (30F) and you could go to market with a +1 sword for 462F. 462F seems quite cheap to me


It is too cheap. Even a labourer digging ditches could expect to be paid 1 florin a day, so I'd put the labour cost at least five times higher.

Shall I upload again my magic item pricing guide again? It stimulated a great deal of, shall we say, strenuous debate last time :twisted:

Cheers,
-Kyle

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