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 Post subject: Revised Weapon Stats
PostPosted: Wed May 02, 2018 7:25 pm 
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These are my take on the DW weapons, drawing on some other threads from this forum:

Dagger STAB/THROW (d4/3. 4)
Shortsword (d8, 3)
Sword CHOP/STAB/POMMEL (d6/d8/d3, 4/3/2) - Pommel strike for close combat situations.
Greatsword* (d8, 6)
Flail (d6, 4)
Mace (d6, 4); AF is halved against a Mace.
Morningstar* (d8, 5); AF is halved, defender suffers a -1 DEFENCE penalty, user suffers a -2 penalty.
Staff (d6, 3)
Cudgel (d3, 3)
Spear (2d3, 3)
Greatspear* (2d4, 4)
Lance** (2d6, 8)
Handaxe CHOP/THROW (d4/d3, 4)
Battleaxe (d8, 5)
Greataxe* (d10, 6)
Halberd* CHOP/STAB/HOOK (d6/d8/d3, 5/4/3)
Sling (d6, 3)
Rock, thrown (d4, 3)
Crossbow (d10, 4)
Bow (d8, 4)
Javelin (d6, 4)
*Must be used two-handed
(Perhaps using a sword, ect. two-handed gives a +1 DAMAGE bonus?)

Thoughts?


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 Post subject: Re: Revised Weapon Stats
PostPosted: Wed May 02, 2018 8:52 pm 
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Having just a quick glance...

The greataxe would become the weapon of choice for warriors everywhere. There was a decent balance between greatsword (d10, 5) and battle-axe (d8, 6): you could choose greater armour penetration or damage. By concentrating both into one weapon (d10, 6), that becomes the Number One weapon for warriors anywhere.

A handaxe should really have an Armour Bypass at least equivalent to a mace. I'd be tempted to have it at either (d8, 4) - equivalent to a sword - or (d6, 5) - less penetrating, but more damage on impact. (I favour the former, as 5+ damage tends to be for 2-handed weapons.)

The halberd has been severely downgraded. As a 2-handed weapon, I would prefer to see it retain something of its original impact (d10, 5) to offset the loss of shield. After all, 2-handed weapons require 2 metres to use, which can be an additional disadvantage when facing a line of spearmen (for example).
Incidentally, the hook on a halberd (and some other pole-arms) is not so much intended for damage, but to catch a rider and pull them from their horse. There are no rules for this in DW (it's one of those things a bit beyond the simple outlook of the game).

You've made the morning star a 2-handed weapon. Is this still a "ball and chain" or the 2-handed spiked mace often referred to as a "morning star"?
(I like your stats if it's the latter.)

You could, rather than changing the weapon stats, change how they affect different armours. For example, a mace could get +1 armour by-pass against mail armour; a flail or ball-and-chain could get +1 Attack vs. a shield (but also have a risk of break/hitting the wielder on a natural 20), a warhammer (d8, 4)? would get +1 armour by-pass against plate. Small changes, but make a weapon slightly more interesting.


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 Post subject: Re: Revised Weapon Stats
PostPosted: Thu May 03, 2018 6:07 am 
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Quote:
A handaxe should really have an Armour Bypass at least equivalent to a mace. I'd be tempted to have it at either (d8, 4) - equivalent to a sword - or (d6, 5) - less penetrating, but more damage on impact. (I favour the former, as 5+ damage tends to be for 2-handed weapons.)


I was thinking of handaxe being sort of equivalent to a dagger - OK in combat, but designed for throwing, so the one-handed battleaxe has similar stats to the mace.

The morningstar is indeed the massive spiky mace you referred to.

Perhaps a STRENGTH restriction on the battleaxe to compensate for the high stats?


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 Post subject: Re: Revised Weapon Stats
PostPosted: Thu May 03, 2018 6:19 am 
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yeah, maybe an ATTACK penalty for not being able to wield it properly. In fact, I wonder whether the blood sword warrior wielding of two weapons could be extended. Maybe strength 16+ can wield two handed swords with one hand?

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 Post subject: Re: Revised Weapon Stats
PostPosted: Thu May 03, 2018 6:24 am 
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Quote:
I was thinking of handaxe being sort of equivalent to a dagger - OK in combat, but designed for throwing, so the one-handed battleaxe has similar stats to the mace.

Sounds like you're thinking of a hatchet, tomahawk or Francisca (q.v. image attached), rather than a battle-axe. The battle-axe is a rather more 'meaty' weapon.

Quote:
The morningstar is indeed the massive spiky mace you referred to.

Cool. That could also be given a bonus vs. mail armour (due to blunt impact).

Quote:
Perhaps a STRENGTH restriction on the battleaxe to compensate for the high stats?

You could do that... But you might then consider whether other weapons would have similar restrictions (can a STR 5 character wield a greatsword?). It's a little quirk of DW that there are no minimum requirements to use a weapon (so there's no reason a sorcerer couldn't use a 2-handed sword) - it's not terribly realistic, but I quite like it.*
* With its simplicity, DW treads a fine line between being realistic and being 'just a game'.

You could also make is very slow (give it a minus to 'Combat Initiative' - i.e. a negative to the REF score purely for determining order of actions in combat). Despite this, with those scores it would still be my weapon of choice - I don't see why any character (PC or NPC) that was able to use it would use anything else?*
* Best ABP and damage going? It would be the weapon to beat all others.


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 Post subject: Re: Revised Weapon Stats
PostPosted: Thu May 03, 2018 6:31 am 
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yeah, maybe an ATTACK penalty for not being able to wield it properly.

Possibly. I'd be tempted to penalise DEFENCE too, as the weapon would be too unwieldy to properly defend with.

Quote:
In fact, I wonder whether the blood sword warrior wielding of two weapons could be extended.

Would this diminish the Knight's Main Gauche special ability? I did think of extending this to high-Rank Barbarians (in another thread).

Quote:
Maybe strength 16+ can wield two handed swords with one hand?

It's not just a matter of strength, but also the mass/leverage of such a long, heavy weapon (it would have considerable inertia). Even if a character were that strong, he might find it awkward to use properly - perhaps a herculean character might pick up a great weapon with one hand, but lose the +1 bonus he'd normally get to ABP and DAM for his STR?


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 Post subject: Re: Revised Weapon Stats
PostPosted: Thu May 03, 2018 6:38 am 
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Yeah, it would make main gauche less spectacular. Just a thought. I mean, in order to become a 'super hero' you have to die and come back alive so thats quite a special requirement, as if the players had become demi gods.

Perhaps some minor penalty for anyone else who tries to wield two hands. Similar to main gauche but with penalties to make it really worthless to other classes.

Wonder whether we should introduce new rules for attacking from behind. Its suggested in old book 1 but should we include other penalties? Maybe give the assassins special skills. Ok, they're overpowered but hey, seems appropriate.

Fan of way of the tiger, so I'd love to see assassins with arrow cutting too. And also shield bearers.

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 Post subject: Re: Revised Weapon Stats
PostPosted: Thu May 03, 2018 6:44 am 
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Quote:
Wonder whether we should introduce new rules for attacking from behind.

I'm not sure you need any? Presenting a zero DEFENCE against anyone attacking from behind is already quite a disadvantage.


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 Post subject: Re: Revised Weapon Stats
PostPosted: Thu May 03, 2018 7:27 am 
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I wish the lances had an understandable 'bonus' to ATTACK, damage or amour bypass rolls. Old book 6 says that jousting lances are blunted. So what are the stats of unblunted lances? Is there a minimum run distance for the horse? I'd apply that to a sword sweep from a charging horseback.

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 Post subject: Re: Revised Weapon Stats
PostPosted: Thu May 03, 2018 7:43 am 
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Lances and lance charges don't fit in well with the DW combat system. You almost need a different system to cover it.

For what it's worth, here are the rules I use for lances in combat (based on the King Arthur Pendragon system). They won't be to everyone's liking, but they worked for me.

LANCE IN COMBAT

Using a lance in a battle is very different from a joust - the opponents will not be contestants aiming at each other's shields to avoid serious injury, but rather will be warriors intent on killing each other.

To be fully effective, a lance must be used when charging, otherwise it is the same as a great spear (2d4, 4). The horse must spend one Combat Round picking up speed before combat can be resolved (the absolute minimum distance it must move is equal to 4x its Movement Rate). Hit Rolls are only simultaneous if the lance is used against another knight charging the attacker with another lance, otherwise the lance always attacks first, gaining the initiative on the opponent, regardless of the wielder's Reflexes. In addition, the lance gives +1 to ATTACK versus weapons other than a lance or pole-arm; this bonus is cumulative with the bonus for mounted attacks against footmen.

Unlike a joust, the opponent's shield only protects on a roll of 1 on d4. If successfully parried, the shield does not deflect all the damage, but rather adds 6 to the defender's Armour Factor. If the damage done by the lance is less than the Armour Factor plus the 6 points of shield protection, the shield can be said to have blocked the lance completely.

If hit, a character (whether or not the shield protects the character) must roll under his Strength + Rank + Reflexes (as in a joust) to stay in the saddle or to avoid being bowled over if on foot. The roll is made on 3d20 if he is riding a war-horse, and on 4d20 if on a normal horse or if he is on foot.

Lance strikes are done while passing the target, who may strike back if he survived and was not pushed over by a successful blow. Unless unhorsed, the lancer must further continue in a straight line for at least one full Combat Round.

Combat lances are not blunted and do considerably more damage on impact; a successful hit will inflict the full damage listed for the steed minus the target's Armour Factor. If a Critical Hit is made for the lance attack, then the lance ignores the target's Armour Factor; only a successful shield parry can reduce the damage (by 6 points).

Lances break more easily than other weapons, but combat lances are thicker and stronger than lances used in jousts; if the Hit Roll is an unmodified 5, 10, or 15, then the lance breaks after doing damage. Also, an unmodified roll of 20 indicates the weapon broke before doing damage.

Standard lance charge damage due to the breed of horse are:
Rouncy 2d6 + 3
Charger 3d6 + 1
Algandarve Charger 3d6 + 2
Zhenir Charger 3d6 + 1
Destrier 3d6 + 3
Kurlish Destrier 4d6

Note: only combat-trained horses may make lance charges.


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