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PostPosted: Sat Jun 16, 2018 11:43 am 
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The first level Air Elementalist spell Cutting Power of the Mind (DW Rulebook, page 99) states:

"His Intelligence score temporarily increases to 18 or, if already 18, to 19. In addition to the usual benefits for his newly increased Intelligence..."

What are the "usual benefits" for an Intelligence score of 19?
+2 to ATTACK, DEFENCE, MAGICAL ATTACK and MAGICAL DEFENCE? (A score of 18 gives +1 to those four ability scores.)


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 16, 2018 12:28 pm 
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Vampires have high strength and I think they only get strength 18 raised stats and a bonus to armour bypass/damage. Curious about what bonuses we can come up with. I'd say strength 1-2 should have penalties in the same way, and strenth 3-5.

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 16, 2018 3:08 pm 
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Starkad wrote:
The first level Air Elementalist spell Cutting Power of the Mind (DW Rulebook, page 99) states:

"His Intelligence score temporarily increases to 18 or, if already 18, to 19. In addition to the usual benefits for his newly increased Intelligence..."

What are the "usual benefits" for an Intelligence score of 19?
+2 to ATTACK, DEFENCE, MAGICAL ATTACK and MAGICAL DEFENCE? (A score of 18 gives +1 to those four ability scores.)

The "usual benefits" of any primary ability score improvement are that the chance of success of any test against that ability score improves by 5% per increase (see the Special Cases section on page 64 of the main rules).

Extrapolating from the rules for a Strength 19+ from page 68, which states that Strength scores above 18 grant an additional plus 1 to armour bypass rolls and damage, you could increase the Magical Attack and Magical Defence bonus to +2 when a character's Intelligence score exceeds 18. You could, if you wish, extend this to Attack and Defence too, but were it my game I'd probably limit this to the magical attributes only.

Given that Strength of 16-18 does not influence armour bypass or damage, you could argue that the precedent created by the Strength 19+ rule (including that it does not further improve a character's Attack or Defence sores) indicates that when a primary ability score exceeds 18, the secondary ability score modifiers do not simply extend further but instead different bonuses are conferred to the character. For example, perhaps an Intelligence score of 19+ should decrease the chance of spell miscasts by 10%, grant +1 to Perception, gift +1 Magic Point, or something along those lines.

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 16, 2018 4:23 pm 
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Cobwebbed Dragon wrote:

Given that Strength of 16-18 does not influence armour bypass or damage, you could argue that the precedent created by the Strength 19+ rule (including that it does not further improve a character's Attack or Defence sores) indicates that when a primary ability score exceeds 18, the secondary ability score modifiers do not simply extend further but instead different bonuses are conferred to the character. For example, perhaps an Intelligence score of 19+ should decrease the chance of spell miscasts by 10%, grant +1 to Perception, gift +1 Magic Point, or something along those lines.




Whut? I'm still on old book 1. Isn't there a plus 1 damage armour bypass for 16-18 strength?

Nice to brainstorm stats for 19+ for other stats. Wonder how this'll work out if someone wants to armwrestle a frost giant, since it ain't adnd 1ed...

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 16, 2018 4:25 pm 
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Quote:
The "usual benefits" of any primary ability score improvement are that the chance of success of any test against that ability score improves by 5% per increase (see the Special Cases section on page 64 of the main rules).

Yes indeed. That would apply to any checks against a character's Intelligence score.

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Extrapolating from the rules for a Strength 19+ from page 68, which states that Strength scores above 18 grant an additional plus 1 to armour bypass rolls and damage, you could increase the Magical Attack and Magical Defence bonus to +2 when a character's Intelligence score exceeds 18. You could, if you wish, extend this to Attack and Defence too, but were it my game I'd probably limit this to the magical attributes only.

Reasonable. I was wondering on all four because, unlike Strength or Reflexes, Intelligence gives a bonus to all attributes (save Looks) at 16 - 18. Extrapolating from Strength (where an extra +1 is gained to ABP and damage), I was wondering if a similar bonus would apply. You're right though - Strength 19 is only a bonus to ABP and Damage, so it's reasonable to restrict Intelligence 19 to an extra +1 to the magical attributes.

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Given that Strength of 16-18 does not influence armour bypass or damage...

Erm. Yes, it does. Strength 16+ gives +1 to Armour Bypass and Damage in addition to +2 ATTACK and +1 DEFENCE.

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For example, perhaps an Intelligence score of 19+ should decrease the chance of spell miscasts by 10%, grant +1 to Perception, gift +1 Magic Point, or something along those lines.

Maybe not the Magic Point, but the other two are possible... although the governing Attribute for PERCEPTION is Psychic Talent...

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I'd say strength 1-2 should have penalties in the same way...

Following the standard DW pattern, I'd say Strength 3 - 5 should suffer a penalty to ABP and damage (the reverse of the 16+ attribute); but a Strength of less than 3 (being lower than the minimum possible dice roll for the attribute, should indicate the character is virtually bed-ridden. Certainly unable to wield anything meaningfully in combat.


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 16, 2018 4:31 pm 
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Nice to brainstorm stats for 19+ for other stats.

Yes. Although I can't think of any situations (in the DW books I've read) where you'd get either Reflexes or Psychic Talent above 18.

Looks (or Presence if you prefer) above 18 could be interesting. The character would be socially stunning and could have an almost tangible "charm" effect. Persons of the opposite gender (usually - there could be exceptions) may even become infatuated with such a character; this can lead to complications if the character harshly rejects unwanted advances (as infatuation turns to spurned hatred).


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 16, 2018 5:10 pm 
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Kharille wrote:
Isn't there a plus 1 damage armour bypass for 16-18 strength?

You're right, there is. My bad.

Kharille wrote:
Wonder how this'll work out if someone wants to armwrestle a frost giant, since it ain't adnd 1ed...

It doesn't really make sense for Strength scores to apply to monsters and non-man-like creatures. What's the strength of an elephant or a dragon or a giant? Even a human with a strength of 19 is probably weak compared to a giant.

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 16, 2018 6:47 pm 
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What's the strength of an elephant or a dragon or a giant? Even a human with a strength of 19 is probably weak compared to a giant.

Quite so. It's a reference/score that this character's Strength is above the human maximum - although you might argue that it is perhaps a measure of hyper-trained athletes (e.g. World's Strongest Man types). Beasts would probably be on a different scale altogether.

In addition, for the arm-wrestling contest, there might be an issue with relative sizes... The leverage would also, in all likelihood, be different.
(But then, that's the kind of thing that epic tales are made of - some hero who wrestled a giant and won the pot of golden mead* - so, if it fits your game, you can come up with a "Strength" score for that particular giant.)

For reference, the King Arthur Pendragon RPG suggests the Strength of giants ranges from 20 - 65, depending on size. ;)

* I'm making that up, of course.


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 16, 2018 8:45 pm 
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I don't know, some of those things you fight like dragons, malgashes and I think near end of elven crystals you'd be fighting a seacreature with d10,10 or something. Ok, you're not going to armwrestle a dragon but perhaps heraklos could prise its jaw open. Just thinking out loud.

Revisiting an earlier discussion, I think a wounded person who is like, 2/13 health points should be in a bad way. Perhaps we should have a system of strength going down when a guys been stabbed a few times. Reread the Iliad, in general all the heroes would retire from battle after taking a wound. I think there was a section where Ulixes and others were reluctant to give battle since they were wounded and needed to be 'washed with wine' and whatever. Perhaps some penalties to damage and armour bypass at strength 3-5, and another at 1-2 would be in order.

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 17, 2018 2:51 pm 
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Going back right to the top, the description for Cutting Power of the Mind (or it might be Forest Murmurs, I forget) also says something about 'being more potent than the Darkness variant of Create Light Breeze'. This always puzzles me, as there is no such spell in the new DW rulebook.

Thoughts?


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