Dragon Warriors

A discussion forum for the Dragon Warriors RPG and related works
It is currently Thu Mar 28, 2024 9:36 am

All times are UTC




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 10 posts ] 
Author Message
 Post subject: Knave - Infuriate/Pacify
PostPosted: Fri Mar 06, 2020 10:11 am 
Offline
4th Rank
4th Rank

Joined: Wed Jan 14, 2015 10:58 am
Posts: 94
Location: Canberra, Australia
Profession: Knight
Hi all,

Just wondering if people interpret this ability as using an action in combat or if it is a free action on top of anything else the knave does. The way it's worded indicates a free action but I'm curious as to how others see it.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Mar 07, 2020 10:15 am 
Offline
10th Rank
10th Rank
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jan 13, 2015 12:17 pm
Posts: 1778
Profession: Barbarian
Hm, didn't get a chance to play this one. Maybe we should give this 'raw power' buffs to 'balance it out'....

_________________
Speech!





And so the show begins!!!
https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/dwp ... ssages/640


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Mar 07, 2020 12:28 pm 
Offline
4th Rank
4th Rank

Joined: Wed Jan 14, 2015 10:58 am
Posts: 94
Location: Canberra, Australia
Profession: Knight
Kharille wrote:
Hm, didn't get a chance to play this one. Maybe we should give this 'raw power' buffs to 'balance it out'....


I re-read an old discussion today about the knave from when it was first released. I had forgotten how deep we got into the issues on this one.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Mar 07, 2020 5:06 pm 
Offline
10th Rank
10th Rank
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jan 13, 2015 12:17 pm
Posts: 1778
Profession: Barbarian
I enjoy the fighting aspect of rpgs. I know some people make that effort to turn it into an art form, and it could very well be a classical experience exceeding that of Tolkien, but you'd need some real indepth writing. If I got into that I might as well write fiction on a professional basis.

If I recall, the real Sinbad was a wimp merchant of some intelligence who got out of situations without being eaten and tended to get richer. Not sure if anyone ran a game without the fighting and fireworks, wouldn't be such a need for raw power and marvel superhero powers for everyone. Really impressed Nim ran a game where everyone played knights. At least there was no magic healing and video game mechanics.

Some guy in youtube pointed out how bandits in a warband video game fought to the death. There is a morale mechanic which should be used more often. In the Yojimbo movie a samurai cuts down 3 gangsters and the 20 others are pacified. Same way a good Knave should be able to pacify a nasty crowd I'm sure. Might take the fun out of it. Don't think Blood Sword books would be fun without the combat.

_________________
Speech!





And so the show begins!!!
https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/dwp ... ssages/640


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Mar 08, 2020 10:50 am 
Offline
Admin/Moderator
Admin/Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jan 11, 2015 4:38 pm
Posts: 690
Location: Birmingham, UK
Profession: Sorcerer
rumtap wrote:
Just wondering if people interpret this ability as using an action in combat or if it is a free action on top of anything else the knave does. The way it's worded indicates a free action but I'm curious as to how others see it.

I'd suggest it is a free action, additional to any other action they may take (unless the other action requires them to speak - such as demanding someone's surrender, spellcasting, etc.). Although probably not what Dragon Warriors needs is another combat mechanic...

I would also suggest that anyone can taunt their enemy in combat (not just a Knave) and that, to do so effectively, the character should know enough about the person they're taunting to be able to "press their buttons" so to speak. This wouldn't necessarily need to be in-depth personal knowledge - for example, any knight might have their ire raised if their honour were publicly challenged. Greater knowledge of the victim of the taunt might make it easier to infuriate them, of course, and I think this probably makes it more suited to a contested skill test than as an automatic ability.

As for Pacify, again, why can only Knaves attempt conciliatory dialogue in combat?

Like the Hunter's Forage ability, Infuriate/Pacify is an example of creating an ability where one wasn't needed - every character should be able to taunt, forage, whatever. Creating an ability specifically to achieve this and assign it to a new profession either limits what other players had been doing in the game up until that point anyway (because they now have to stop it because they don't have the exclusive ability that enables this) or the Knave profession is diminished because their abilities are no longer special. Better to make it a general ability available to everyone to learn as a skill (although that would require a workable skills system!)

I would also suggest that the Knave can only work as a profession if the social context of the other professions is fleshed out. Knaves and Knights, for example, fill very different (and, arguably, extreme) social niches - but both have the ability to wield social influence. If only the Knave can wield their social influence without also describing the social abilities of knights, the game mechanics unintentionally inform a style of social play that excludes the Knight's social advantages.

_________________
Cobwebbed Dragon (Lee)

https://www.cobwebbedforest.co.uk/
https://www.dragonwarriors.uk/
https://twitter.com/CobwebbedDragon
Now on YouTube!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Mar 08, 2020 10:57 am 
Offline
Admin/Moderator
Admin/Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jan 11, 2015 4:38 pm
Posts: 690
Location: Birmingham, UK
Profession: Sorcerer
Kharille wrote:
I enjoy the fighting aspect of rpgs. I know some people make that effort to turn it into an art form, and it could very well be a classical experience exceeding that of Tolkien, but you'd need some real indepth writing. If I got into that I might as well write fiction on a professional basis.

If I recall, the real Sinbad was a wimp merchant of some intelligence who got out of situations without being eaten and tended to get richer. Not sure if anyone ran a game without the fighting and fireworks, wouldn't be such a need for raw power and marvel superhero powers for everyone. Really impressed Nim ran a game where everyone played knights. At least there was no magic healing and video game mechanics.

Some guy in youtube pointed out how bandits in a warband video game fought to the death. There is a morale mechanic which should be used more often. In the Yojimbo movie a samurai cuts down 3 gangsters and the 20 others are pacified. Same way a good Knave should be able to pacify a nasty crowd I'm sure. Might take the fun out of it. Don't think Blood Sword books would be fun without the combat.

Some great points - yes, fantasy RPGs need combat - it's fun, thrilling, and dangerous. But, unlike high-fantasy RPGs, Dragon Warriors is steeped in a little bit more verisimilitude that should inform more realistic combat encounters - most people won't fight to the death and most people will try to escape from a combat in which they are outmatched, for example. Leave murder-hobo gaming with instant healing to D&D.

Knave or not, if you see someone cut down three of your colleagues without breaking a sweat, the others are likely to surrender (or run). Wouldn't you?

_________________
Cobwebbed Dragon (Lee)

https://www.cobwebbedforest.co.uk/
https://www.dragonwarriors.uk/
https://twitter.com/CobwebbedDragon
Now on YouTube!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Mar 08, 2020 2:06 pm 
Offline
10th Rank
10th Rank
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jan 13, 2015 12:17 pm
Posts: 1778
Profession: Barbarian
Oh yeah, in old book 1 they say orcs make a habit of running away. I think a free hit is too powerful, but perhaps ATTACK vs EVASION instead to leave combat. Whereas you're making a full 'run' move your opponent would make a 'move' move so that they can take action/strike. Would not apply if they are already engaged with another opponent.

Thats like a 'free move' as long as you're not too committed. Maybe some free moves would be in order, shouting war cries, threats, demanding they drop their weapon, perhaps a person who 'moves 10m' can also do do other actions like pick up objects, knock over lanterns .. actually, that is something you can do if you're running.

_________________
Speech!





And so the show begins!!!
https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/dwp ... ssages/640


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Mar 09, 2020 11:02 pm 
Offline
4th Rank
4th Rank

Joined: Wed Jan 14, 2015 10:58 am
Posts: 94
Location: Canberra, Australia
Profession: Knight
All good points about social interactions and the knave. The feedback I gave at the time was it should have worked with the existing social class rules rather than using rank.

Also yes, foes should run away or surrender if that is the logical thing for them to do. Experience is awarded for defeating an opponent, that doesn't mean you have to kill them.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Mar 18, 2020 4:25 am 
Offline
Admin/Moderator
Admin/Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jan 11, 2015 3:21 am
Posts: 2100
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Profession: Hunter
"the Knave may keep up a running commentary as the combat progresses," - intent is its a free action during other combat actions.

I allow everyone to attempt anything, in this case: The difference would be that others do not automatically effect enemies of lower Rank allowing all opponents to resist with Intelligence rolls and that other Professions/Non-Professions are not as skilled at effecting others allowing only minor adjustments of -1 ATT or -1 DEF at most. Of course if an enemy knows something specific and disquieting about a particular PC or vice versa then its GMs call as to what the effects are.

With regards to Forage just increase the difficulty by 2 for non-hunters, double the time taken and obviously no additions for Favoured terrain.

_________________
co-author Fury of the Deep
co-author Friends or Foes
co-author Dragon Warriors Players Guide
co-author Cold Fury
co-author Cadaver Draconis
co-author Ordo Draconis 1 and 2.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Mar 18, 2020 11:13 am 
Offline
10th Rank
10th Rank
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jan 13, 2015 12:17 pm
Posts: 1778
Profession: Barbarian
Just a thought. Is it possible we can draw upon real life/legendary/mythical knaves, famous bards or poets and see what they did?

Back of my mind... Robert Burns comes to mind but perhaps successful politicians. What about Hitler? I think he managed to capture 7 french soldiers with a pistol. Not a medieval version but perhaps something to be said about a 1st rank Knave and what they can do.

Doesn't have to be bards I guess.... Nestor from the Iliad? Loge? What about the real Sinbad?

_________________
Speech!





And so the show begins!!!
https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/dwp ... ssages/640


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 10 posts ] 

All times are UTC


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 45 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
cron
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group